I mostly agree with what Jim said. It'd be more natural to work with
"speaking" tags like <r:if_index> or <r:if_first>. Radius tags are a
cornerstone of radiant, and as complexity grows, more tags emerge.
Sticking all functionality into one <r:if> does IMHO not reduce
complexity nor does the user have less to learn. Nonetheless there is
certainly room for extensions like the one from Chris. I'd especially
like the variables part, i could use it to "parametrize" snippets, a
feature which I'm missing too.

Chris, is your extension available on GitHub?

/simon

 On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:41:11 -0600
Chris Parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for your response and kind words, Jim.  See my comments
> below...
> 
> Jim Gay wrote:
> > I agree that the list of if_this unless_that can get very long, but 
> > there is a benefit in that the intentions of the code are clear.
> > I remember seeing emails about your extension and being very 
> > interested in the past, Chris, but I didn't have time to take a
> > look at it.
> >
> > I agree with the principle that a single r:if would make life
> > simpler, but my gut reaction is that it starts looking less
> > natural. But maybe I'd feel better with some nomenclature changes.
> >
> > Please resurrect it. I've got some questions that might just be 
> > cleared by using it.
> 
> At this point, I plan to bring it back.  I have two issues I'd like
> to address and time is the big factor.
> 
> >
> > Something just bugs me when I see shortcuts such as the attribute 
> > "cond" when I feel like "condition" would be clearer. I think that
> > in a system like Radiant, which seems to have some good coverage
> > with non-technical users, clear intentions are important.
> 
> I agree.  Actually, in my original version I permitted both
> cond="xxx" and condition="xxx" to allow for quicker typing among the
> geeks.
> 
> >
> > I would scope the variables stuff more explicitly, such as
> > <r:variables:store> and <r:variables:output>
> > Because, although I haven't done it yet, I think a simple ecommerce 
> > web store would be a nice extension and <r:store> would make sense
> > there.
> 
> Good idea.  Other variations included <r:set var[s]="x: 1; y: 20">
> I'm now thinking that a better approach would be <r:vars x="10"
> book="John" chapter="3" verse="16" />.  It seems more readable.
> 
> By the way, I opted to only create a specific variable setter but a 
> generalized getter.  Since my <r:if condition="page.title == foo">
> had to be able to evaluate page.title to compare it, it seemed
> natural to create a way to output anything evaluation-able.  So you
> can also: <r:puts value_for="page.title" />  or
>     <r:puts value_for="page.part[my part]" />
> 
> Now, these two examples overlap with the existing <r:title> and 
> <r:content part="my part"> which are more concise, but it makes it
> nice for extension writers to easily offer:
>     <r:puts value_for="this.that" />
> 
> (more on "this.that" below...)
> 
> 
> >
> > You mentioned using <r:if cond="children.index = 1"> but should
> > that have a double equal (==)?
> 
> It currently allows "x=1", "x ==1", or  "x equals 1" since radiant is 
> geared at the non-programmer.  Incidentally, "x == y" is also
> permitted.
> 
> > Does it allow the use of RegExp matching with =~ ?
> 
> It currently allows "x matches /regexp/" and "x match /regexp/" but
> also including "=~" would be trivial.
> 
> In addition, the following comparisons are permitted:
> 
>     * "x exists", "x exists?", or just "x"
>     * "x blank", "x is_blank", or "x blank?"
>     * "x empty", "x is_empty", or "x empty?"
>     * "x not 12" or "y != 'my string value'"
>     * "x < y" or "1 lt 2" (> and gt also available)
>     * "y <= 'A'" or "x lte z" (>= and gte also available)
> 
> 
> > Does the extension provide a way to easily describe how to parse 
> > things like "children.index" or "this.that" ?
> 
> No -- though I've always considered this critically needed.  This is 
> where I got stuck as my ruby and radiant chops just weren't there.
> I'd love to look into it now that I am much more familiar with
> radiant but this is also the place I would very much welcome help.
> 
> Basically, my code parses the condition into left and right symbols
> and the comparison element and then hands off the symbols to be
> evaluated. I'd want extension writers to be able to add in code to
> define how to evaluate their own custom symbols.  I need a good
> mechanism for that. So if you define a current_shopper.index, you
> could instantly offer: <r:if condition="current_shopper.index equals
> 1000000> <strong>Hurray! You're the millionth shopper!</strong>
>     </r:if>
> 
> > Does it have the equivalent unless tag?
> 
> Sure does.
> 
> >
> > I disagree with John's suggestion too. <r:if_index in="-1,-2,-3"> 
> > makes me think, "huh?"
> >
> > Just this evening I was walking a client through parts of their 
> > Radiant site. I always say something to the effect of "you can
> > always contact us when things need to be changed, but this is how
> > its done..." Some people speak up and say "Ok, forget it, I don't
> > need to see that" while others pay attention.
> > When I walked through a few examples we have with <r:if_content 
> > part="part_name"> the client said, "Oh, cool". The intentions of
> > that code are very clear and I have little fear (depending on the
> > user) that someone can screw that up.
> >
> > That's not to say that everything should be dumbed down, but to me 
> > something like <r:if_first group_of="10"> is very friendly. So a
> > DRYer <r:if> would be nice, but I think a friendly dialect (for
> > lack of a better term) is very important.
> 
> What he said.
> 
> I too, want to see maximum usability and comprehension for the 
> non-techie.  And I *certainly* welcome input as to how to improve the 
> wording/syntax/approach used here to deliver on this.
> 
> -Chris
> 
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