Maybe Thomas will provide a definition of Fascism for us. He knows it first hand and his insights would be invaluable. As a one-time member of YPSL maybe my definition of "Socialism" would have special relevance. True, I was a member in the early 60s, not the early 20th century, but I think I can answer well enough. Socialism. n. political movement with various sub-categories derived from several sources which, by the first years of the 20th century, has coalesced into a loose alliance increasingly influenced by the ideas of Karl Marx. This entry concerns Socialism in the United States only. However, like Christianity, and many early followers thought of themselves as Socialists because it was, for them, a necessary Christian expression of politics, Socialism never was a really unified phenomenon. Moreover, the word was used in very different ways, just as the word Christian can mean many different things, by a variety of groups. The main "sects" of Socialism in America in the years ca. 1890 until ca.1930 were these : Socialist Party Wisconsin wing under Victor Berger , mayor of Milwaukee part of that time aka "streets and sewers socialism" centered on public works, citizen activism on behalf of trade unionists , on behalf of better public schools, anti child labor, etc and pro-small business while often highly critical of big business. A "wing within the wing" of the Wisconsin school consisted of Christians who interpreted most politics according to a principle captured in the modern slogan, What Would Jesus Do ? New York wing under Morris Hillquit, community activist. This wing was most Marxist and most labor union centered. It also was most radical generally and as many as a third, even more in NY proper, eventually defected to the Communists after the Bolshevik Revolution. Western wing which tended to be local , that is, centered on mining in Montana, centered on civil rights in the state of Washington, centered on social change in California, and so forth. Not as radical as the NY wing, but some groups also defected to the Communists. Social Gospel, not Socialist per se, but very similar in its strong emphasis on caring for the poor, justice for working people, civic responsibility, etc, all of this in the context of Christian faith of a character we would mostly call "fundamentalist" today, with emphasis on the Sermon on the Mount. Utopian Socialism , divided up into many community centered groups scattered all over the map. For the most past this form of Socialism took the form of experimental settlements --"communes" in contemporary terminology-- some centered on agriculture, some on crafts industries, some on publishing, some on social experiments ( including sexual experiments, but all heterosexual ), some on education, and the like Socialism of the Chair, or Academic Socialism, based on discussion, education, intellectual engagement, and so forth. This kind of Socialism never had a mass following but influenced all the other forms. It was this kind of Socialism that kept alive Saint-Simonian traditions which most influenced myself. Trade Union or Labor Socialism. Could be general as a tendency in the SP but also had a "classic" political party , the Socialist Labor Party, which had roots dating back to before 1890. Non-Marxist, but sometimes arrived at similar views derived from common sources. Populism, or Home Grown American Socialism, particularly the Midwestern version best known from the Peoples Party of the last decade of the 19th century. Just about totally oblivious to Marx, the Populists derived their politics entirely from grievances related to agriculture, mining, corruption in politics, the role of corporations in monopolizing wealth, the need for better race relations, the need for greater democratization of the American political system, etc, hence from them we get primary elections, referenda and recall, popular election of senators, etc. By 1900 the Populist movement was in serious decline but many of its ideas morphed into the kind of Progressivism epitomized by Teddy Roosevelt. This pretty much covers the waterfront. Billy ====================================================== message dated 1/15/2011 10:09:27 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Wow, nice discussion.
Could one or the other of you define what Socialism and Fascism actually meant to people in the early 20th century? Nowadays I mostly see them as curse words.... Sent from my iPhone On Jan 15, 2011, at 5:36, Tomas de Utrera <[email protected]> wrote: > I lived under Francisco Franco's regime for its last seven years and so experienced Spanish Fascism directly. The term itself is difficult to define because the "big four" regimes we classify as Fascist, while having some things in common were all quite different. One point they all shared in common was some form or another of corporatism. In none of the four was private industry discouraged. The founder of Fascism, Benito Mussolini, several times rued the fact that he had called his system Fascism and complained that he should have called it what it really was; corporatism. He was seen by big business all over the world in a very positive light until he joined Hitler's Germany in a failed alliance -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
