Tom :
I am glad to stand corrected. I should not have been so skeptical, but I
was
thinking of the Left Coast, like here in Eugene, where Muslims are regarded
by the political elite --and Leftists generally-- as welcome allies
against
Evangelicals and anyone else who can be considered to be an actual
Christian.
I have a friend from Lithuania --now a US citizen-- who tells me that the
political Right is rising all over Europe, primarily on the issue of
Islam. He was
absolutely aghast when he visited Europe a couple of years ago after a
10 year absence. Muslims have created their own quasi-independent states
within European cities --all over the map. Large minorities in places
like
Malmo, where anti-Semitism is rampant, Same for Helsinki, Copenhagen,
and Amsterdam, etc, and of course, Paris and Marseilles. These are almost
all, he says, "no go" zones for white Europeans, and even the police hardly
dare to enforce the law in these areas since the only law that many
Muslims
respect is Shariah.
But here, that's another story.
Billy
=====================================================
message dated 6/19/2011 12:22:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Billy
Having just returned from visiting my daughter in Holland I'd say that
this law will be used to curb run-away Muslim demands and arrogance in the
low countries. Many of the governments of the EU like the Low Countries are
totally estranged from the population and have become dangerously
politically correct, somewhat like the US government on the issue of illegal
immigration. I found that the people are really tired of the Muslim attitude
in
their countries.
People like Geert Wilders are gaining influence even in England who has
been exceptionally soft of the issue. I found that the average Dutchman is
sick of the whole mess and Belgium also has its movements like Wilders and
these movements are a lot stronger than the MSM in the US tells us. From
what I saw the winds of change are starting to blow. This legislation might be
used against cults like Scientology but there are far too many diverse
Christian religions to expect that there will be any wide spread
discrimination against the evangelicals and other legitimate Christian sects.
The
problem of Islam is too big to take a back seat. This obviously is "back
door"
legislation to curb the tide of Islam. Many people I talked to seem to be
taking the Islamization of their country very very seriously. I am sure the
Belgians feel the same way. These countries are no longer as liberal as we
once thought, at least on this issue.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
--- On Wed, 6/15/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [RC] Religious Restriction Law in Belgium --elsewhere in the
future ?
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 6:20 PM
Easy to see this as restrictive toward Islam, BUT my best guess is that
Muslims won't be touched and that this is directed against Evangelicals
and various "cults" like Scientology.
BR
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Discriminatory Draft Law in Belgium Violates Fundamental Religious Rights
("Joseph K. Grieboski," June 14, 2011)
Proposed legislation in Belgium contains provisions specifically designed
to discriminate against targeted religions derogatorily designated as
"sectarian movements". This draft law is designed to "fight" against religious
minorities through the creation of a new penal offense based not on the
criminal activities of such groups, but on the character of their beliefs and
religious doctrines.
An individual's choice to convert to one of these faiths is characterized
as "abuse of weakness". The draft law would amend the penal code and
criminalize the manifestation of religious beliefs by labeling religious
practices of targeted faiths as "psychological subjection" or "techniques
susceptible to alter one's capacity of discernment".
The new offense would require an assessment by law enforcement authorities
and Courts of the validity of religious practices and beliefs in order to
determine whether they constitute an "abuse" or not. Such a determination
would allow discrimination of minority faiths considered as "sectarian" as
opposed to religions with traditional beliefs. This would represent an
impermissible violation of the international human rights commitments signed
by Belgium, which mandate non-discrimination on religious grounds and
freedom of religion and belief for all religions.
Passage of such legislation would represent a serious impairment of the
principle of religious freedom and the principle that the law has to be
precise and foreseeable, guaranteed under Belgian law and international legal
norms, as the Belgian Council of State noted in its opinion on similar draft
laws in 2006 and 2009.
The proposed legislation is inspired by the much-criticized French law of
12 June 2001, known as the "About-Picard Law", which allows for the
imposition of restrictions on religious groups based on a new offense of
"abuse
of a state of ignorance or weakness", an offense unprecedented in Europe in
modern times. The French legislation aroused international condemnation
from religious, human rights and inter-faith organizations as well as a
recommendation by the Council of Europe that France reconsider the law.
International legal standards mandate that new religions or religious
minorities that may be viewed with hostility by the majority or by
predominant
religions be treated the same as other religions. These standards also
mandate a spirit of tolerance toward minority movements. Yet, based on
discriminatory theories that have been discredited by authorities and scholars
around the world, the draft legislation adopts a distinctly unequal and
intolerant approach towards religious minorities that would lead Belgium
further
down a path of intolerance.
Spearheading the draft legislation is Member of Parliament André Frédéric,
who has led the "fight against" spiritual minorities he derogatorily
labels as "sectarian movements".
Linking the developments of "sects" to the failure of traditional
religions, in particular Catholicism, Frédéric explained that in a society in
search of new values people are "drawn towards a new form of
pseudo-spirituality" and only want one thing: to be guided by nice speeches,
"ignoring in
their credulity that their mind is going to be formatted".
In order to combat these new forms of spirituality, Frédéric has proposed
new penal provisions that are about to be examined by the Belgian
Parliament in June 2011 even though they contain provisions that infringe on
the
rights of minorities to freedom of belief, conscience and association.
The proposed bill contains two articles inserted by Frédéric to repress
the so-called "sectarian movements".
Article 33 proposes the insertion in the Belgian penal code of a new
Article 442 quater. Ironically it comes right after the existing Article 442
ter, which criminalizes harassment based on the religious or philosophical
convictions of the victim. This new Article 442 quater criminalizes the Abuse
of a Situation of Weakness and provides:
"§1 - Will be sentenced to a jail term going from one month to two years
and a fine from 100 up to 1,000 euros or one of these penalties only, anyone
who, knowing the situation of physical or psychological weakness of a
person altering seriously her capacity of discernment, has fraudulently abused
of this situation so as to get that person to do an act or refrain from
doing an act, this act or omission being highly detrimental to her physical
or mental integrity or to her patrimony."
Then another paragraph follows setting aggravating circumstances:
"§2 - The penalties will be of a jail term going from one month to four
years and a fine from 200 up to 2,000 euros or one of these penalties only in
the following cases: If the act or omission referred to at §1 results
from a physical or psychological subjection due to the exercise of serious and
repeated pressures, or techniques susceptible to alter one's capacity of
discernment. (...) If the abuse referred to at §1 constitutes an act of
participation to the principal or accessory activity of an association.
These articles contravene the right to freedom of religion and belief and
the rule of law under Belgian legislation and the international treaties
signed and ratified by Belgium.
In essence, the draft bill attempts to dissuade people from making
particular religious choices and to penalize religious organizations that
manifest
their religion through proselytism and religious practices based on the
State's view on the propriety of those choices.
It is crucial to keep in mind that international law does not establish a
place for the State to assume the role of conscience police.
Religions are not above the law. However, any legitimate concerns are much
more effectively addressed by the enforcement of existing laws on common
criminal activities. Special laws against "sects", on the other hand, are
discriminatory and endanger the religious liberty of every citizen.
The provisions of the draft law intended to criminalize religious practice
contradict the rule of law, violates fundamental rights to freedom of
religion and conscience, including the right to manifest religion, and
contravenes the doctrine of neutrality.
THE INSTITUTE on Religion and Public Policy accordingly urged the Belgium
Parliament in a full analysis of the bill (found here) not to enact the
draft legislation in order to ensure that Belgium complies with the
commitments it has made to the United Nations, European Convention on Human
Rights
and Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
____________________________________
--
Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community
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Google Group: _http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism_
(http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism)
Radical Centrism website and blog: _http://RadicalCentrism.org_
(http://radicalcentrism.org/)
--
--
Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community
<[email protected]>
Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism
Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
