Re: [RC] [ RC ] Political Holy War

[David R. Block]

Title: "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech

Well, let's see. Have I ever seen a non-totalitarian leftist regime? Allende's Chile perhaps. very many others? No, not really. What countries are economic "basket cases?" Greece-heavily socialist, Spain-ditto, Portugal-ditto, Italy-ditto. Maybe these would also qualify as non-totalitarian left regimes. Depends on what amount of control one considers "authoritarian" and how far left is left. And you are making me look up "Manichean." Which sends me to an article on Gnosticism. Joy. :-\ Ah, "dualist" comes up. That I understand. :-) I have a very black and white outlook on many things, it's not limited to politics. I cannot remember ever being anything other than literalistic. EVER. So the teaching of the Dispensationalists has always appealed to me when it came to Christianity. Mild case of Aspberger's? I don't know. They weren't really looking for it back in the day... The use of "jihad:" it is the only "one word" word that I knew of for "Holy War." I should go to a Thesaurus sometime, but at 12:54 AM, that's not happening. Falling asleep and doing a face-plant in the keyboard, now that is possible. A good hour and a half past the bedtime. If it's 10:54 PM in your time zone, well, gee, what must it be in mine?? Yes, I know about mixed markets. I know that they have various ideologies working together (more or less, some at seeming gunpoint, but i digress). But I tend to the black and white thing, so I don't really see it that well. Some ideology comes out on top, even there, unless one has a "leaderless" economy. Maybe like what we have today. :-( I still do not understand this statement (not totally true, I can read, I just don't like what I read) and WHY from the e-mail down there prior to this reply: Its a war to the death between RC and Libertarianism is how I look at it. This sounds like the "good vs evil" that you don't like me doing. And guess who is standing over there with the evil? And I'm supposed to like this or something? OH, PLEASE..... that's hilarious. Or, you know, NOT. I don't think that the target audiences are totally the same. More down below. "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection."—Neal Boortz   On 3/23/2012 1:59 AM, bil...@aol.com wrote: 3/22/2012 10:54:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, david.r.bl...@verizon.net writes: Holy War? Jihad??? I wish I understood why. Because I really, really, REALLY don't. Nor do I understand the frequent dissing of "free market." Guess you prefer the authoritarian controlled market. Seig Heil, Baby!!!   ---------------------------------------------------------------   Reply : No offense intended, but why are you so Manichean about politics ? At least it seems that way, often enough, as if the choice is conservatism in one or another form OR  authoritarianism of  one or another stripe.   Also, I am mystified at why you sometimes take metaphors for policy statements. "Holy War,"  after all, is used metaphorically just about every day somewhere in the press, as shorthand for "let's get serious about this."  If I intended to mean jihad   --which you are well aware I abhor--  that is the word I would have used and "jihad" is just about always non-metaphorical, intended to be taken literally. But let's stick with economics here.     Even hear of mixed economies ?  For me the "perfect solution" to most economic problems is an answer to the question : What mix of practical ideas works best to get the job done ?  These ideas can come from anywhere but no ideology can possibly be taken at face value, whole cloth,  as if it is "the" answer to all our prayers. All economic ideologies are flawed in some ways, sometimes badly. This includes free market ideologies.   Anyway., I did try, seriously try , even in the midst of criticizing the failures of the market to give it due credit for its successes and strengths.  It is axiomatic of RC to "prefer market solutions."   But this hardly means that the market is always right and the only alternative is Communism or Fascism. Nor does it mean that the market cannot be criticized and sometimes severely criticized.   As you  know with absolutely no room for doubt,  I am vehemently anti-Fascist and anti-Communist. This being the case,  how in blazes can you possibly make some sort of connection that isn't there to "seig heil" ? DRB: If you are going to associate freely Libertarians with progressives, leftists, Social Darwinism and the like-all of which you know I can't stand and abhor and most of it in absolutist terms.... How does the shoe feel on your foot? Not good? I understand, I have first hand experience. >:o Et to, Brute??? That is what I should have written in response to many of the articles. I've kept them, I don't know why. Must be the inner pack-rat... Came free with the OCD.   Nor does RC mean that whenever there is a major market problem, why, of course, it must be the fault of evil government because, you see, the market can do no wrong and the state is always wrong. I simply do not see how that kind of "analysis" is productive or, for that matter, objective. DRB: The day I claim objectivity, you can know that I have totally lost my mind. Problem is, I don't think that most folks are objective.   That kind of outlook is pure libertarian and is dysfunctional. And there is no way I won't say exactly this when it is relevant to do so.   The whole point of RC, in terms of economics, is to try and understand how systems work Its like NASA and space rockets. When they work well  , great, terrific, everyone cheer. But when they blow up, it becomes crucial to find out exactly what went wrong.. Spare no-one anything, just find the problem and fix it.   To do this no-one can start the process of investigation with the assumption that there surely was a conspiracy, or that bureaucrats caused the problem and lets find the guilty bureaucrats. You have to go where the facts lead.   At least this is how I conceive RC even if, for sure, all of us have our philosophical biases and there is no way to be completely objective no matter how hard we try. But we simply have to at least try, and not just a  little, but whole heartedly.   Billy   ------------------------------------------------------------         No, that's not true. I no longer have any idea on your economic preferences any more. Posting approvingly of today's progressive swill from Think Progress will do that to a fellow. It's like "What the Hell just happened????" I have no freaking idea. I'm no longer certain of common ground on any issues, and I do mean ANY. This weeks posts feel like an e-mail Pearl Harbor. Didn't see it coming and sad that it did.       I am finally catching up after having company all week. No way I can keep up with your volume because group membership is verboten at the office and logging into other e-mail accounts is likewise verboten. So I send links home that I find at the office, and sometimes post them in the evening, the only real time I have-in between dog sitting. I simply do not have the time with family obligations. David    "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection."—Neal Boortz   On 3/22/2012 10:22 PM, bil...@aol.com wrote: Re :   3/22/2012 7:39:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, david.r.bl...@verizon.net     " Houston, we have a problem."   First, you are always free to circulate other quotes for consideration of the group.   Second, who constitutes "the group" ?   There are the regulars, about  ten+ of us who chime in most days or, anyway, every now and then. But then there are the others, and my private mailing list and the mailing lists of anyone here who has one.    Which is to say that comments about Libertarianism that I make, or articles that I may circulate every so often,  always  --rare exceptions-- are intended for the whole shooting match, our 25 or so lurkers, and some are quite important, the ten or twelve regulars, and the people who I e-mail stuff to privately.  Sometimes just 2 or 3 people, sometimes 20 or 30.   Its not just about you personally, in fact, more often than not, if it was possible, it is not about you at all. As Ernie  once said, waaaay back in 2004 or 2005, you are sort of a "virtuous Pagan" by Radical Centrist standards. As well, as a person, not exactly a secret, I think well of you and enjoy our exchanges both in the group and privately.  For all our differences we also have a good deal in common. And, some day, I look forward to having a few beers with you to talk about a subject dear to both of us, top level college football.   But in a way its like a hypothetical game between Illinois and the Aggies. No disrespect whatsoever for A & M, which I think very highly of, but make no mistake about it, I'd want Illinois to win and the higher the score the better.   As a True Believer Radical Centrist my opinion of other kinds of political outlooks is similar. And as things now are in the real world, the main competition for any allegiance that RC may one day have for the hearts and minds of Independents consists of Libertarians and Libertarianism.   I fully intend to poke holes in Libertarianism as much as possible. The more holes I poke into Libertarianism the better. Its a war to the death between RC and Libertarianism is how I look at it.   Billy     ====================================================         OK, so I guess that I will have to leave Libertarianism and be a shithead. That's enough pounding on my head-I'm going to quit giving a shit. HAPPY NOW??? David   "I am so Libertarian that I don't think lawyers and doctors should be licensed by the government. I am so Libertarian that I make some Libertarians cringe."--Neal Boortz On 3/19/2012 10:39 PM, bil...@aol.com wrote: Quotes relevant to Libertarianism        --critical and not necessarily critical                 -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org