Re: [RC] [ RC ] Radical Centrism vs Rand - Libertarianism

[David R. Block]

Title: "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech

It's not difficult to understand, but it is damn difficult to find. I mean, you mention 1 (one) guy from UCLA who has even attempted it and it hasn't brought him roses from his own side. There's just about NO evenhanded approaches here. Sure there is blame to go around. And if I watch CNN/CBS/ABC/PBS/MSNBC and read the local rag (even in Texas), it's ALL the fault of the oil companies, coal companies, chemical companies, farmers and ranchers spraying pesticides and all that rot. Government is always on the side of good, and the companies are always on the side of evil, if I may go dualist in the opposite direction from my usual. Such appears to be the Democratic narrative. Oh yeah, and Libertarians are evil. There has to be a middle ground here. Where is it? I don't hear much of it. I hear the standard lines and complaints that either the environmentalists have poisoned the debate (from the Libertarians), or that the Libertarians have poisoned the debate (from the environmentalists and the MSM). The latter has the louder voice because they are buying TV signals (well, they actually OWN some of those)-modern day ink-by the barrel. I am so used to getting the government=good, companies=bad, that I will seek equilibrium by stressing the opposite. I get it in the news, I get it in the paper, and if I wanted to find more of it on the internet, I know I could. I took a nap today, so I may go past my 11:30 witching hour. Or maybe not. David "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection."—Neal Boortz   On 3/25/2012 9:04 PM, bil...@aol.com wrote: Wait a minute. The point isn't that there is no fraud in the environmental movement. Nor is the point that the EPA under Obama isn't off the rails. And complaining about such things is a legitimate reaction.   Ernie's point was that it is illegitimate to put all the onus on government, especially since private interests have, in fact, done a lot of harm to the environment. Which is not to say that businesses always do so. Jared Diamond's book, Collapse, is very clear about how responsible a good number of oil companies really are.His colleagues at UCLA don't want to hear this and he has gotten a lot of flak from the Left   But there is no question at all that other oil companies have been very bad actors. Hence the argument is that it is foolish to blame only the government. But that is what you habitually do, its always the gvt's fault and only the gvt's fault. That viewpoint is the opposite of anything that can be called Radical Centrism. Obviously  I will question such statements and Ernie also and anyone else who feels like it.   If there are assumptions made as intrinsic to RC the prime example is the viewpoint that in just about all cases you will find blame on both sides of any equation. Therefore, any analysis which leaves out either gvt or pvt business is invalid and wrong.   This does not say that, case by case, the worst offender may not be the government  Its just that over any kind of comprehensive study the chances are very high that gvt and private business will commit approximately as many "sins." Its how the world works.   As well, and this is testable, the public does not buy into the view that gvt is always wrong just as it does not buy into the view that business is always wrong.   This is the prime problem with Rand and Libertarianism, the insistence that the problem is always the 'evil-doing' government, and that the market is always right. That viewpoint is simply outright false. And everyone knows it. Except a Libertarian minority that, for reasons of Libertarian ideology forever says that all problems are the fault of government. That belief is preposterous.   It is, by the way, the mirror image of Marxist-Leninism. Almost exactly. For it is the Marxist-Leninists who forever say that the problem is always the private sector and the market is always evil.  Most people --overwhelmingly--   don't buy that, either. Because Rand / Libertarians are so completely one-sided in their approach they cannot be taken seriously. They are not objective, they are ideological.   Are ideologies wrong  about everything ? Of course not. Clearly Libertarians make valid points about free speech, and their critiques of some particulars are right on the money. But overall, there is such one-sidedness that Radical Centrists must oppose Libertarianism, not tepidly, but clearly and strongly After all, that  viewpoint stands for positions that are the exact opposite of Radical Centrism.     There is blame to go around, including blame for the gvt. But there needs to be some semblance of objectivity. To leave out the blame that is due to private companies or the market is simply to misconstrue reality.   Why is this so difficult to understand ?     Billy   -----------------------------------------------------------   3/25/2012 4:34:06 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, david.r.bl...@verizon.net writes: We have EPA overreach and Globull Warming fraud all around and complaining about it is the distraction??? So we let the EPA strangle the energy supply and kill jobs because government is so saintly??? I cannot believe that I'm reading this. David "Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection."—Neal Boortz   On 3/25/2012 12:21 AM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar wrote: Hi DRB, Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2012, at 21:46, "David R. Block" <david.r.bl...@verizon.net> wrote: I thought that we were in MORE opposition to the current Presidential office holder. This seems to be a distraction. While Billy's crusade may be overblown, he has a legitimate point. The idolization of the free market and demonization of the government is largely what is making the GOP lose the masses. Yes, we can't blame all that on Rand and the libertarians, but they are the ideological core of those messages. In short: they are the distraction. E -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org   -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org