Re : Christian Post article below What complete horse crap. The following article presents a view of homosexuality that has nothing at all to do with the testimony of the Bible. But what can anyone expect ? What counts on the issue of homosexuality is finding some way to accommodate the views of the media on homosexuality, accommodating the views of the pro-homosexual American Psychiatric Association, accommodating the views of politicians of both parties neither of whom know anything of substance on the issue of homosexual pathology, and selling out the Bible because it is embarrassing to defend. Unless the issue is abortion, virtually the ONLY social issue on which the Religious Right actually is informed. Did Jesus say that we should love homosexuals ? Maybe in one sense, that of concern for their souls, for the families from which they came, and so forth,. But in another sense he did not say any such thing. Jesus said other things besides what he preached during the Sermon on the Mount. The other things he said actually matter, don't they ? Guess not. But they matter to me, and the one passage where Jesus explicitly talked about homosexuality he was entirely consistent with the uncompromising condemnations made by Paul in Romans 1 : 24 - 32. Homosexuals, said Paul, "know well enough the just decree of God, that those who behave like this deserve to die, and yet they do it ; not only so, they actually applaud such practices." This embarrasses most Evangelicals, they run away from the obvious implications. They explain it all way, rushing to the nearest pro-homosexual theory of what Paul "actually meant" --despite the words he actually said-- because, you see, libertarian morals are what matter these days, anything goes, and not what the Bible says, or Christian tradition, or Church doctrine. Those are inconvenient and no longer are regarded as truths. The solution to the problem of this obvious disconnect is simple : Reduce the Christian message to the Sermon on the Mount, forget all of the other stuff. And, above all, ONLY discuss abortion and concede all other values issues to the Left. This is easy, by the way, all you need to do is nothing, simply refuse to become informed about homosexuality, never read one critique of the APA, never read one psychoanalytic critique of homosexuality as pathological, never read anything else that is relevant. Ignore NARTH, ignore Dr Charles Socarides' research, Judith Reisman's research, Paul Cameron's research, and O.R. Adams' research. Ignore it all and capitulate to public opinion. Jesus would have wanted it that way. Except I really don't think so, not at all. What Jesus actually said about homosexuality is found in Matthew 11 : 20 - 24. This is the pericope about Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum. " For if the miracles had been performed in Sodom which were performed in you, Sodom would be standing to this day. But it will be more bearable, I tell you, for the land of Sodom on the day of Judgement than for you." Hey, it is high time to get really angry about what has happened in American society and show some genuine outrage. This is impossible if the issue is treated as demanding one and only one approach to the issue : We should hate the sin and love the sinners. Instead, while we should hate the sin, for sure, we should stand up to the sinners, condemn them, expose them for what they are, make it clear to everyone just how sick they are, how psychopathological, and show zero tolerance for homosexuality. If they repent and abandon homosexuality completely, that is one thing, and surely would be an occasion to show Christian love. But not one minute before. Homosexuals need to be openly opposed, not coddled and excused. I must tell you that I am dismayed at Christian abdication of the issue of homosexuality and retreat from the field. This is sickening. It makes me far more angry than dismayed, however, even if, as I now realize, it is necessary to make this fight on my own with zero possibility of any help whatsoever from any Christian. I am outside the fold on any number of theological issues and therefore not someone who can be worked with. Besides, the issue is settled ; it is only a matter of time until the homosexuals have most of what they want, deal with it... Christians are not interested in this fight. Or only damned few are interested. Well, I am interested, and I will fight to the death about this. Homosexuality is among the very worst of all sins and only murder exceeds it in depravity and evil. In case anyone wanted to know Billy PS How is any of this Radical Centrist in character ? Very simple. This issue, for me, is paired with another strong stand that I take in favor of legalization of non-coercive, legal age, voluntary female heterosexual prostitution, for which the Bible provides ample testimony. ================================= Christian Leaders Urge Church to Love Gays, All People as Jesus Commanded
By _Alex Murashko_ (http://www.christianpost.com/author/alex-murashko/) , Christian Post Reporter October 27, 2012|9:56 am A call for Christians and churches to show more love as modeled by Jesus for people living a homosexual lifestyle was made by more than a dozen pastors and ministry leaders speaking during "The Nines" leadership webcast. "This topic is an important one. It gives the Church a chance to wrestle with both grace and truth. It's a polarizing topic and one that leaves little room for compromise," said Pastor Gregg Farah of Shelter Rock Church in Long Island, N.Y. Farah was one of 16 Christian leaders who spoke during short video-taped segments for a two-hour session on Friday. "How should we respond to the gay couple that wants to engage in our church? A couple that wants to apply for membership, who wants to be in leadership, who wants the opportunity for a deeper relationship with God and to experience authentic Christian community without being ridiculed or ignored," he asked. Farah said that if a church is going to honor God with a clear biblical teaching and a Christ-like presence it needs to fulfill the Great Commandment and do two things – love people, love God. "It's easy to talk about 'those people,' but those people have names, are committed to their partners, love their children and want deeper relationships with God," he said. He told the story of how he developed a strong friendship with a gay male couple in his neighborhood and when he found out that the reason he hadn't seen one of the men for a long time was because the couple had broken up he was upset and cried. Farah said his response even surprised himself, but he told the story to illustrate the importance of personal relationships with all people. "Christ commands us to love our neighbors as ourselves. Are you wondering how to engage a gay couple at your church? Love them. In order to fulfill the Great Commandment we are to love people and we also have to love God. To do that we have to look at what the Bible teaches on this topic and be honest and clear on what we believe," he said. "This is not the time to look the other way." Farah and others speaking during the webcast also expressed how it's important for Christians not to shy away from the truth of the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. "I think it's healthy to live in the tension of biblical accountability and relationships. Although sometimes that provides discomfort, but I thank God that Christ wasn't intimidated by discomfort. Despite our sin, Christ died for us," he concluded. Pastor J.D. Greear of The Summit Church in the Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina explained how his church had to make a hard decision to go ahead and publicly endorse a constitutional amendment in their state against same-sex marriage. "We generally avoid political topics. They have a way of clouding the main issues of the Gospel," Greear said. The church came to the conclusion that it should take a political stand after discussion with its Elders. "I have no questions at all about the sinfulness of homosexuality, but I was in turmoil of soul about whether or not we had done something that put an obstacle in the way of people hearing the Gospel," he said. However, he now believes it was the right decision. "I do think it helped people to think Christianly and it gave them an example of what it looks like to speak grace and truth on an issue. That was the glory of Jesus. It is that He spoke with grace and truth, because truth without grace is fundamentalism and grace without truth is just sentimentality," Greear said. Tennessee pastor Stacy Spencer of New Direction Christian Church said he believes that the gay community has been looked at by Christians in much the same way lepers were during the time of Jesus on earth. "We have for the longest time treated people who are homosexual, gay, bisexual, or transgender as lepers because we have ostracized them out of our religious community. When we think about a leper they were put out of their community because of their condition," Spencer said. "If we are going to be the church of Jesus Christ we have to be willing to meet people where they are and be willing to touch people in their place of hurt and in the place of their need for transformation," he said. Pastor Greg Lee of Suncrest Christian Church in Tennessee said gays and gay couples are welcome at his church not only during worship services, but for church community group building and service opportunities. "When we study the Scriptures we think the Bible speaks consistently about homosexuality, but we don't think it is a predominant issue in the Scriptures," Lee said. His hope is that gays feel welcome and come to know that anyone, no matter what their background is doesn't have to have their life all "cleaned up." "You just have to be willing to step in and start belonging as part of the community. Once you are engaged in those settings you've essentially invited someone to speak into your life spiritually," Lee said. "Conversations about lifestyle would come up and be addressed in a grace filled and truth filled sort of way." The theme of this year's "The Nines" conference, which ended Friday, was "Too Hot to Handle: Topics That All Ministry Leaders Are Dealing With But Nobody's Talking About." Hosted by the _Leadership Network_ (http://www.leadnet.org/) , some 99 speakers submitted 5-minute videos on topics such as social justice issues, succession, PR nightmares, arrogant staff members, killing a church program, homosexuality, and pastoral obesity, among others. Read more at _http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-leaders-urge-church-to-love-gays-all-people-as-jesus-commanded-84024/#ug2IOiTfdoxHAmvU.99_ (http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-leaders-urge-church-to-love-gays-a ll-people-as-jesus-commanded-84024/#ug2IOiTfdoxHAmvU.99) -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
