Ernie: Interesting argument; I think it is true as far as it goes. Unfortunately it also
is one more case of "traditional values," viz, a particular cultural paradigm, against the world as if there is no other possible alternative than that paradigm vs sexual and social anarchy. A false choice, in other words. Granted, the "modern" paradigm, call it the Californiation of American, or the Las Vegasification of America, or what-have-you, is an ungodly mess and it far more a problem than anything else, but there really are other ways to look at 'popular culture' than two choices, one based on Jesus as understood by Evangelicals and one based on nihilism. The article also takes the POV that it is a social good to have 10 kids. Well, OK, in the 19th century that was a viable outlook. Heck, it was a viable outlook in Appalachia until ca 1960 or 1970. But these days, everywhere you look, almost no families have more than 3 or 4 kids and even that many is increasingly uncommon. Evangeline had 4 of her own, another half dozen were adopted, and some other Evangelicals have similar values, but this is clearly outside of just about every social norm in today's America. And is self-actualization such a bad thing? I don't see where it is a bad thing at all, at least if the concept is linked with social responsibility. That is where the problem lies. We have cultural relativist neo-Marxism in the fashion of Herbert Marcuse and we have libertarianism, each calling all (not actually all, but to make a point) the cultural shots, and that is the story of Left and Right as we know them today. In both cases there is no responsibility for anything. Our elites are ideologically un-religious or even anti-religious, and therein we find the problem, not in how elites have few children. No religion = ill-advised values. In every case? Not necessarily, but damned often. At least for me the question is: How can faith become relevant again for modern men and women? For me at the center of this "project" there needs to be some form of Evangelical values, but maybe a better way to say it is "Biblical values" -which are not the same thing as values of contemporary Evangelicals, not up and down the line, anyway. Somehow the wedding at Cana is perceived by many Evangelicals as extra-Biblical, as if this central feature of the Gospels isn't actually in the Bible. After all, drinking all that wine is "un-Christian" !!! Having a good time at a wedding party is un-Christian, too. Don't take this literally but as a comment to the effect that in some forms of Evangelical religion we get faith that is not grounded in the real world. And more and more of the young see things this way and are exiting the churches in large numbers. It isn't that many (most) Christian virtues are passe, but that this paradigm of faith makes less and less sense in the 21st century insofar as there is no complimentary model of faith that allows for, well, the wedding at Cana, viz., having a good time, etc., within the orbit of faith. It all returns to Paul in 1 Corinthians: If you can do just about anything, exactly how do you choose what is good, good for you, and good for the community? So, where do our elites get their values if they are libertarians or Cultural Marxists? Here is a closely related problem: To get to the place where people can see the value in what is most intrinsic to faith it is necessary to discredit libertarianism and Cultural Marxism. But a great many people are ignorant that they are -in a de facto sense anyway- libertarians or Cultural Marxists Question for the group: Where are there Evangelicals -anyplace- who have the least interest in knowing how to discredit either libertarianism or Cultural Marxism? You tell me. Except for a precious few intellectuals almost no Evangelicals even know what actual libertarianism is, let alone Cultural Marxism. And so, Evangelical faith is being undermined and Evangelicals are clueless about what to do because, you see, all problems can be prayed away. All you gotta do is trust in Jesus. As important and crucial Jesus is. I don't think that is the best approach to religious faith. Religion needs to become a form of education as well as an expression of faith and, to be candid, I don't see this happening in an Evangelical context. Do you? Billy ________________________________ From: Centroids <drer...@radicalcentrism.org> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2018 11:35 AM To: Centroids Discussions; Billy Rojas Subject: Why American Elites Supported Same-Sex Marriage | Alastair's Adversaria More fodder for Billy... https://alastairadversaria.com/2018/07/26/why-american-elites-supported-same-sex-marriage/ [https://alastairadversaria.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/darel-paul-from-tolerance-to-equality.jpg]<https://alastairadversaria.com/2018/07/26/why-american-elites-supported-same-sex-marriage/> Why American Elites Supported Same-Sex Marriage | Alastair's Adversaria<https://alastairadversaria.com/2018/07/26/why-american-elites-supported-same-sex-marriage/> alastairadversaria.com Darel Paul has written a thought-provoking new book, From Tolerance to Equality: How Elites Brought America to Same-Sex Marriage. I reviewed it here. Marriages between two persons of the same sex r… Why American Elites Supported Same-Sex Marriage July 26, 2018 [https://alastairadversaria.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/darel-paul-from-tolerance-to-equality.jpg?w=210&h=300]<https://amzn.to/2LQTuZ9>Darel Paul has written a thought-provoking new book, From Tolerance to Equality: How Elites Brought America to Same-Sex Marriage<https://amzn.to/2LQTuZ9>. I reviewed it here<https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/from-tolerance-equality/>. Marriages between two persons of the same sex represent the dislodging of the gendered hierarchy in marriages between men and women. Same-sex marriages are less a shared commitment to the demands of a natural institution ordered toward the bearing and raising of children, than they are a potent symbol of individual autonomy, self-realization, and expression. When marriage isn’t a male-and-female reality, gender stereotypes associated with parenting and labor can be undermined. Indeed, for these and other reasons, in many quarters elite opinion swiftly moved to present same-sex marriages as the ideal, not just an exception to be tolerated. Paul suggests that perhaps one of the greatest factors informing elite support for same-sex marriage is their own low fertility. Through his analysis of the data, he reveals that fertility is “the fulcrum around which family models turn” (109). The more children a couple have, the less likely they are to be sexually progressive. Conversely, by far the highest support for the normalization of same-sex relations is found in those groups with the lowest fertility, for whom sex detached from reproduction is most normalized. Procreation is the elephant in the room<https://alastairadversaria.com/2017/04/26/bill-nye-progressive-science-and-the-threat-of-nature/> of all of our cultural conversations about sex, sexuality, gender, and marriage. To the extent that it can be suppressed in our awareness by technological and ideological means, sex, sexuality, gender, and relationships can float weightless and ungrounded in a gravity-less vacuum<https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/cheap-sex-mark-regnerus/>. Read the whole thing here<https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/from-tolerance-equality/>. Sent from my iPhone -- -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <RadicalCentrism@googlegroups.com> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to radicalcentrism+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
