Well said. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2018, at 00:54, Billy Rojas <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ernie:
> 
> There were all sorts of ideas we discussed on Thursday that  merit additional 
> thought.
> 
> For myself, some ideas need additional clarification. But we were "thinking  
> out loud"
> 
> at least half of the time and neither of us could have delivered "finished 
> products."
> 
> 
> 
> I very much  like the approach you suggested, about a hypothetical council to 
> remake
> 
> Christianity in the years after the fall of the Temple. But this got me 
> thinking about
> 
> the fact that Christianity has been re-invented several times in the past,
> 
> including  at least three times in its early history.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it was reinvented at some point in the late 70s or no later than 
> around 90 AD
> 
> with the rise of the Gospels  -which did not exist before then. Surely 
> various stories
> 
> we now know from the Gospels were in circulation before that time but some 
> literary genius,
> 
> whom we now call "Mark," invented the gospel genre and it changed the course 
> not only
> 
> of Christian history, but all of history.
> 
> 
> 
> We also know that in that era any number of "gospels" were written, a best 
> estimate being
> 
> 35 or so, even if most are now lost or only survive in fragments.
> 
> 
> 
> Especially interesting about Mark is the fact  -there is a scholarly book on 
> the subject-
> 
> that Mark, at first anyway,  was performance literature.  It was meant as 
> script material,
> 
> something to read dramatically, to enact, and perchance to discuss afterwards.
> 
> In the midst of this development, say 100 AD or maybe 110,  came Revelation,
> 
> which also is narrative literature, which tells an historical story
> 
> and, to boot, a story about the future.  But in this era there still could be
> 
> question about Christianity being a special type of Judaism.  The Ebionites
> 
> were still around, for example.  Also in ca 100 AD or as late as around 115,
> 
> came the Diatessaron,  which was extra-Biblical but sought to create order
> 
> out of disparate early Christian traditions  -including some that were shortly
> 
> to pass away or be greatly modified,  like the wandering Christian prophets.
> 
> Separation from Judaism was only partly in effect  in this period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some time after the end of the second Jewish War, which was over by about 125,
> 
> the final break  became inevitable.   Christianity had to be re-invented yet 
> again.
> 
> Here's where we get Clement (flourished  170 AD until ca 210) and we get the 
> 
> Marcionists and Valentinus, plus the "great Gnostic sidetrack" as I think of 
> it.
> 
> Clement is key to all of this and deserves far more attention than I have
> 
> so far given him, which is more than a little but far from enough.
> 
> Christianity was no longer Jewish but what it would become was still
> 
> in question.  Clement both  pushed Christianity in an orthodox direction
> 
> and also in what, by later standards, would come to be regarded as a
> 
> quite heterodox direction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The third re-invention of Christianity took place in the era of Constantine
> 
> and included a "war of ideas" against the Arians.  While even then, "Pagan"
> 
> ideas and motifs were in full retreat everywhere within the Church,
> 
> there still were vestiges. There still are, of course, but they are
> 
> hanging on by their fingernails, you might say.  Back in the 4th century
> 
> they could rise to the level of significant undercurrents or ways of thinking.
> 
> 
> 
>  You can add a 4th re-invention brought about by Augustine.  No argument
> 
> from me on that;  mostly I am favorably impressed. The only thing to add is 
> that
> 
> by his time just about all of the foundation was already in place, and he had 
> little
> 
> to do with any  of that side of things.
> 
> 
> 
> If you were to speak of the East there would be one other re-invention, that 
> of
> 
> the Assyrians, viz Nestorians, which is very important to me, personally,
> 
> but that means little or nothing to mainstream Christians in the West
> 
> or in the "third world" today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There would be still more re-inventions, especially those that came about
> 
> during and in the aftermath of the Reformation.
> 
> 
> 
> I think we are on the verge of another re-invention even if we can't yet see 
> more
> 
> than some rough outlines or conceptualize more than a few of its basic ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, here is a beginning toward a more adequate discussion of  "re-inventing 
> Christianity."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community 
> <[email protected]>
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> Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
> 
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