Ernie: Thanks for taking the time to reply in detail to my e-mail.
It is greatly appreciated. However... There it is again: "Sometimes I get the sense that you wish the church was more like Islam, ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them." Where, in ANYTHING I have ever written, do I come remotely close to saying any such thing? Your statement is just about the exact opposite of what I actually wish for. Sometimes it is the same thing when I talk about "wars of ideas," which is almost always spelled out to mean education, media, debates, publications, new theology, etc, and not guns or bombs. ------------------ "Would you really object to a new Spanish Inquisition aimed at homosexuals and Muslims?" Huh? Tell you what that kind of comment reminds me of: Some of the Adventist "fundamentalist" preachers on 3ABN. Or late night preachers who I may tune in now and then to hear their spiel to stay informed about Evangelical rhetoric. Everything is a gross oversimplification. -in service to a Potemkin village ideology in which the world is all black and white. If is isn't understandable in ways that 'fundamentalists'' conceive of things then -necessarily- think the worst of someone else. This is how it comes across. ------------------------- Here is a pure pietist statement: "Or just maybe, Jesus really was serious about the cross, and us carrying it. Maybe the way to get the world we and he long for can never happen with a sword, but only by dying to our anger, fear, shame and disgust in order to release God’s transforming love — and Justice." No action at all, just turning inward. But I recall how Jesus, when confronted with the money changers in the temple said unto them: "Aren't you ashamed of yourselves? Gentlemen, let us transform our lives through prayerful sorrow about the evils of the world. Here, I will not show any anger at what you are doing, I will suffer for you. Keep your money changing tables but just remember that God loves you." I have no idea at all who you refer to when saying "Evangelical pietists." Who comes to mind -first- when I use the identical same words is Ernie P. Its never the kingdom and what we should do -by way of real world action- to help being the kingdom along. Its always the Passion and inwardness. In fact, by way of maybe my own misunderstanding, you seem to me to be a sort of classic case of Evangelical pietism. Heck, the impression I get is that, for you, this is the only conceivable way to even think about "real" Christian faith, everything else being inferior or counterfeit. --------------------- "...the power of God without having to pay the price of his holiness..." I have no idea at all what this could possibly mean. How can anyone pay a price for God's holiness? That is "pietist speak." Sounds to me like something that would be said in a pietist prayer circle, everyone seeking God's forgiveness, praying fervently for something that is important to the circle, etc, with no outside reference at all. Which is another marker of pietism. As well, there is little by way of objective discussion of religion. To be sure, this sort of thing is not unique to pietists, but it certainly is another marker. That is, there always is a direct appeal to beliefs -in the sense that someone else should believe in "my exact prayerful way" and there is no other way to even discuss religion. For me there are maybe 25 strong ecumenical or even interfaith verses in the Bible, like Malachi 1: 11 and Acts 10: 34-35. Not as "proof texts" but as two examples out of two dozen or so. But the sense I get from you is that, when all is said, while there may be acknowledgement that a few of these verses exist, for all practical purpose none of these verses exist. None of these verses mean much at all because all that really has meaning is Jesus. Which is a prime marker of pietism. Evangelical pietism is "Jesus-Jesus-Jesus and Jesus only" religion. The point being that for me, as important as Jesus is, there is a great deal more to think about including my fervent desire to understand people of other faiths (speaking mostly of Buddhism etc) in their own terms and acknowledging that they have truths to teach me, not just me to teach them. For a pietist there is just about nothing to learn from people of other faiths. And no wonder that pietists have profound disinterest in Schweitzer. --------------------------- I know for a fact that you have read Kierkegaard and other noted Christian thinkers. Its just that, unless I am overlooking something, I can't find their influence anywhere in what you say these days. OK, these are perceptions, but there certainly are reasons for these perceptions. Billy ________________________________ From: Centroids <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 8:16 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Billy Rojas Subject: Re: [RC] [ RC ] When Jesus Returns & in the here and now Hi Billy, > Christianity is about creating new life, new possibilities, and finding new > insights and new ways to do what is good. It is all about action, not sorrow. > It is all about > adventure, about overcoming hardships, and doing your imperfect best. > > Why would someone want anything else? Why indeed? I agree, I have no use for an escapist pietism either. But that begs the question: why did Jesus die on a cross? Why not do what his disciples wanted, and rule like a king and smash all his enemies? Sometimes I get the sense that you wish the church was more like Islam, ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them. Would you really object to a new Spanish Inquisition aimed at homosexuals and Muslims? But do you really think Jesus would approve of that? Any more than he approves of the passive escapism of evangelical piety? Or just maybe, Jesus really was serious about the cross, and us carrying it. Maybe the way to get the world we and he long for can never happen with a sword, but only by dying to our anger, fear, shame and disgust in order to release God’s transforming love — and Justice. Sometime I think you want the power of God without having to pay the price of his holiness... Ernie the pious activist (Cue Billy ranting about how passive and unrealistic I am) -- -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
