Can you expand on what you mean by a more slothful, more bureaucratic community? If I had to make a guess, I'd say that by one metric of sloth and bureaucracy - incompatible changes in programming languages - open source / hobbyist / underground languages are more slothful and bureaucratic than proprietary/commercial languages. Python has had its first major code-breaking upgrade in decades with 3.0.
One thing I anticipate with a larger community is that there would be more gems, and better-polished gems. What would your prediction be? Also, if we make ruby accessible to Java, wouldn't the ruby community be getting not your average Java developer, but someone who has to use Java due to network effects but would rather be using ruby? Andrew On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Pearson <[email protected] > wrote: > > Okay, wait a second. My assertion is that there must be multiple > viewpoints here, and that maybe we shouldn't cheer on every advance > for getting Ruby into the enterprise as if it's good for all. This is > not about revolutions, and it's not about elites. This is idle > wondering if it's our hand that's signing our warrant. > > There's no indication -- zero indication -- that a much, much bigger > community is a much better one. Very often, it's a more slothful, more > bureaucratic one. > > To be clear, I have little interest in 'very risky projects'. I have a > lot of interest in dangerous ones. Yep, my original phrasing hints at > some antipathy towards the state of enterprise web development, and I > apologise for tarring many people with a brush that is perhaps > reserved for a few. > > I do wonder about this maturation lark, though. What will we lose in > the process? > > - J > > -- > > Joseph Pearson | software inventor | inventivelabs.com.au | +61384150866 > > On 29/07/2009, at 1:45 PM, James Dumay wrote: > > > > > Disclaimer: I work for a Java shop but I'll use anything so long as > > there is a pragmatic reason for doing so. > > > >> There's no doubt that JRuby is an impressive technological > >> achievement, but with her mission, she's no friend of ours. Right > >> now, > >> Ruby (and Rails) is our competitive advantage. We shouldn't be > >> worrying about how to get Ruby into enterprise. We should be worrying > >> about Ruby getting into enterprise. > > > > This is the same sort of BS that was thrown around a few years ago > > when RoR was really taking off - that somehow Ruby was some sort of > > "underground revolutionary movement". Something more shiny will come > > along and the same cycle of elitist douchbaggery will begin again. > > > > (http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/) > > > >> All this stems from a misguided empathy as developers for our > >> brothers > >> and sisters stuck in enterprise. Stuck with awkward languages, > >> copycat > >> frameworks, dubious projects and secure, well-paid jobs. On average > >> they're earning two or three times what we are, for work half as > >> dangerous. If they want to share our good fortune, they can have the > >> guts to make the jump. Or they can suck it up in Java/.NET/PHP. > > > > The view that the enterprise folks should switch to Ruby or "suck it > > up in Java/.NET/PHP" is rather immature coming from a community of > > intelligent people who have brought such an amazing injection of ideas > > and techniques into a frequently misguided industry. > > > > Dubious projects? I'm extremely certain the Ruby camp do not have a > > monopoly on well specified and well managed projects - and I'm sure > > almost everyone on the RoRo list can attest to that. > > > > And as for pay - your slogging your heart out on very risky projects > > on half the pay? Clearly someone is a winner. > > > >> Does Ruby need this? Maybe, if it wants to win the popularity > >> contest. > >> But we have no great investment in that. Our investment is in the > >> awesomeness of our community, which these efforts ("let's double the > >> size!") throw into question. Don't forget: this is business. And > >> that's your Wednesday morning rant. :) > > > > Double the size? Thats double the investment in the technology stack - > > this is where your better libraries, better virtual machines, better > > web servers and better tools are going to come from - not every good > > tool is going to come from a half baked wetdream on Github. > > > > The ideas, community and technology are maturing like all successful > > technologies naturally do. > > > > The key here is that your "Rubyist underground" is no longer that > > teenager hanging around music stores that are too indy for proper > > ventilation or carpet - the technology is growing up and this kid > > needs to start paying the rent. > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
