On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Joseph Pearson < [email protected]> wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 6:12 pm, Pat Allan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Joseph, you finished your initial rant talking about the awesomeness > > of our community, but then stating 'This is business'. On some level, > > sure - but that's so very much a secondary focus for myself. I love > > solving problems, and creating things, and Ruby lets me do that in > > ways that often make me happy. Do I make money from it? I most > > definitely do. Do I want to stop anyone else from making money from > > it? Fuck No. > > > > I appreciate the confirmation in more recent emails that it's not > > about elites - but it still reads like it is, even in the later > > emails. There's a distinct feel of us vs them, and that's the core of > > what I'm railing (hah, no pun intended) against. > > > Oh dear. I am perhaps one twirl of a moustache away from being cast as > the villain of this piece. Alright, but before I submit to it, let's > recap on what I'm *not* saying. > > This is not a class war between well-paid cubicle workers and ramen- > profitable prophets. That was my own false dichotomy, and I heartily > disclaim it. (Ben: I made the numbers up. Pour vous: http://is.gd/1SGkg) > > This is not about language wars. Ruby is awesomely successful, because > most of us here love it and earn a living from it. Most of us would > drop it in a heartbeat if something better was available, and that's > as it should be too. Matthew, what does it matter if it is "seen as a > secondary language"? > > This is not open-source vs proprietary. I create open source software, > in fact I tend to release public domain code -- usually WTFPL. Version 1.0 or 2.0? (Wikipedia has articles on the license in nine languages - scary!) > I would > argue to the ends of the earth against proprietary platforms (which, > Adam, Who the blank is Alice, er, Adam? Did you mean Andrew? I would say are much less adaptive -- you mention gems, but take > a look at the rip initiative for a great example of how to enrich > without breaking (unless, as James puts it with a remarkable mixed > metaphor, that's a 'half-baked wet dream on Github')). I was referring to individual gems with wanting more and better polished, not the rubygems software itself. > But there's > just no question that as an open source project grows, and certainly > as it takes on enterprise consumers, it gathers increasingly > significant dependencies. Inevitably, these generate inertia. If that > is the trade-off for widespread adoption, how much are you willing to > trade? > There is a question. I'm questioning that assertion that increased size leads to inertia. I gave you an example that python had more inertia than other, more widely adopted languages. > > This is not free love vs elitism or protectionism or being cooler-than- > thou, or as Pat puts it well, "stopping anyone else from making money > from [Ruby]". Neither end of that spectrum makes much sense. > Personally, I love that we're able to do this. I love waking up every > day to make this stuff, and eating ramen or better all the while. I > certainly won't guard the gates, and I'll argue against anyone who > does. But I will reject any call to change the nature of Ruby, or > change the nature of the community that has made Ruby successful, for > the sake of people who aren't willing to adopt the Ruby way but want > to partake of its benefits. This is the fundamental point (and it > seems Nathaniel's excellent point): YOU have to come to US. We're not > giving up our advantage out of charity. > > So what is this? Perhaps as Pete implies (kindly, I thought), this is > a rant without an interesting point. Or maybe there's something in it. > It's an old discussion, but a good one to continue to have. If anyone > wants to beat up the villain in person, I'll cop the blows at the > Melbourne RORO meet tomorrow night. :) > > - J > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
