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On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 9:20 AM, Josh Price <[email protected]> wrote: > That's very true. Hiring is hard. Ultimately as an employer you're making a > big fat guess but hopefully you've considered all the available data points. > > The criteria I usually end relying on are: passion, intelligence and getting > stuff done. Communication skills also factor in too, which helps if you're > working on a team. > > As Lachie points out, certification and github accounts don't feature in > those criteria. They both however represent excellent ways of determining > all of those things. how? > > Cheers, > Josh > > > On 22/02/2010, at 8:50 AM, Lachie <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Stepping back from the issue another pace, its clear that no pat, >> neatly boxed answer ("certification!" or "github!") is a reliable >> indicator of employability. >> >> I've been involved in the employment & working with process of both >> kinds of folk. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they really didn't. >> >> The problem as I see it is determining ahead of time what the person >> will be like to work with. Is the candidate able to be passionate >> about their work, and if so, will they become passionate about *your* >> product or client for the duration of the contract? >> >> For example, if you hire someone based on their passion for open >> source, are you hiring the evident coding chops or the coding chops >> *and* the enthusiasm for consistent, fine work? And can they apply >> that same enthusiasm to the end of a long, unglamorous-but-paid >> project? >> >> Can you tell that from anything but working through an entire project >> and seeing how it goes? >> >> In other words, I have no idea how to hire people. I know only that a >> candidate being certified or being visible in the community or github >> isn't enough to go on. >> >> >> Sorry Navin, I don't think this really answers your original question, >> but its an interesting discussion nonetheless. >> >> :lachie >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Ben Schwarz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Good argument Josh, although I'm far less convinced. I'd look sideways >>> at anyone who bothered with certification. Open source code speaks far >>> greater volumes - After all, we're all supported by open source >>> technology. >>> >>> Those who patch, extend and collaborate in such an environment are >>> highly valuable. >>> That being said, it won't cause any harm either ;) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> On Feb 21, 8:11 pm, Josh Price <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think the more balanced answer is that it depends on the context. >>>> >>>> Like others, I'm generally quite skeptical of certifications as a rule. >>>> In your case however, I think a certification may make a lot of sense. >>>> >>>> As a newcomer and non-programmer, a certification gives a potential >>>> employer some minimum understanding of your skillset. This is especially >>>> useful if you happen to be bootstrapping your Ruby career, without any >>>> commercial experience. >>>> >>>> For a lot of the regulars in the Ruby community and particularly those >>>> of us with much more experience, any kind of certification is absolutely >>>> useless. >>>> >>>> As a community, we are in the interesting position where current demand >>>> for Ruby and Rails skills far exceeds supply. Therefore we need to not >>>> dismiss the concept of training or certification just because it doesn't >>>> suit us in our current position. I believe it is potentially useful for >>>> those coming into our industry and community. >>>> >>>> Josh >>>> >>>> On 21/02/2010, at 5:39 PM, Navin wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>> >>>>> As a newcomer to ruby and rails (and as someone working on >>>>> rejuvenating a career as a programmer) I am trying to establish how >>>>> the "Ruby Association Certified Ruby Programmer" accreditation (http:// >>>>> www.ruby-assn.org/en/certification.htm) is regarded by this >>>>> community. >>>> >>>>> I am taking an online course with rubylearning.org (and finding it to >>>>> be somewhat useful) and following Michael Hartl's excellent Rails >>>>> Tutorial as he develops it (railstutorial.org) - also working through >>>>> the canonical textbooks on the subject ... Thought I would try and get >>>>> some feedback before considering the certification further. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. 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