re: not being a software dev house
yes- I agree. But my issue with MSProject isn't really software dev or
iteration related - it is more that as a model it creates very
misleading information. Each task is relatively simple- and this tends
to give a false sense of the size of a project. Visualising this as a
Gantt chart (IMO) provides very little information other than a pretty
chart that tells you when the project will end (typically on the day
that the project manager wants it to). A MSP Gantt chart of a project
going seriously bad and another that is fine looks pretty much the
same unless you know what you're looking for. More critically, I found
that no one understood any of the information in the charts I was
sticking up everywhere. It's not that they aren't clever people- they
just didn't care as they had lots of their own stuff to work out.
My point is that I'd avoid trying to follow the MSP model. I would
suggest:
* Think about what kind of information your team needs to be effective
and how to get it to them. It's unsexy, but email has worked for us
* Consider what feedback they need (how are we tracking) and what is
useful/meaningful. eg: we found people were interested in things like
who was the most busy. We stick this on the wallboard
* I'd break your project into three parts - the stuff each person
needs ("what am I doing?"), team feedback ("how are we going?") and
stakeholder report ("how are you guys tracking?").
* Try to avoid putting all effort into an awesome stakeholder report
with all the whistles when a) they probably don't care about how
awesomely interactive it is, and b) if it is non-useful for your team
it will probably whither and die
* Sounds like we had a similar issue with a portfolio of projects
rather than just one. We looked at what the implications of this were
and how to solve problems we were having. eg: we're capable of working
on several projects at once, but do we have the capacity to take on
another project next week?
@Clifford - I'm not sure about Pivotal Tracker, but Jira allows each
issue to have custom fields and triggers, so you can stick as much
information in there as you need. Certainly much more useful than the
MSP schema of "you get 10 custom integers and 10 text fields". For
each project you can have a set of issue types, each issue type can
have a different schema and follow a different workflow if you want. A
workflow can be as simple or as complex as you need. Each step can
have different triggers (if this happens, send an email to everyone in
group A and send this issue to QA), plus there is an API which you can
use to manipulate issues & projects as well as pull information out to
use elsewhere.
re: wallboards - you might get some inspiration for ways to present
team information here
http://ultimatewallboard.com/entries
in particular the Vodafone one http://ultimatewallboard.com/entries#89095
Also, you might be interested in http://www.geckoboard.com/ if you
don't want to make your own
regards
Ben
On Feb 2, 11:52 am, Tim McEwan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I see where you guys are coming from, but we're a scientific research
> institute - not a software dev house. :-) We don't work in iterations and are
> only concerned with weekly resolution, not daily. I'm going to read the
> wallboard article properly tonight and I'm always on the hunt for tips from
> the software realm to bring into our project management, but I have to take
> it slowly with these guys. :-)
>
> I've got my manager & director using Pivotal Tracker fairly readily though.
> Win!! (Thanks @mocra for getting us off Redmine.)
>
> --
> Tim McEwanOn Wednesday, 2 February 2011 at 11:38, Clifford Heath wrote:
> > On 02/02/2011, at 9:44 AM, Ben Still wrote:
> > > I was an avid MS Project person until a few years ago, and I think for
> > > some reason MSP has become some kind of "default" for how you might
> > > manage a project. I used MSP for pretty much everything, but with the
> > > benefit of hindsight (IMO) it is pretty inflexible. It provided a
> > > false expectation of how long a project might take and how it's going.
>
> > Totally agree. I use a deep task/goal nesting, where you can estimate,
> > work and assign iteration/phasing at any subtask or supertask level.
> > Many tasks get "done for this iteration" while still having things
> > outstanding
> > for a future one. This was especially the case when working on code that
> > had to be implemented (differently) across many platforms. You need to
> > handle the fact that software is never "done" and often, neither is a
> > task.
>
> > In the late 90s I extracted the schema from MSP Server's SQL database
> > and used it as one of the seeds for a new web-hosted design, but that
> > never got funded. I think it could have been an excellent product
> > however.
>
> > > We now rely much more on
> > > stories and use Jira and Greenhopper for managing and scheduling
> > > tasks. Tasks in the real world don't neatly line up and change from
> > > "todo" to "done" - they need to get worked on, QA'ed by someone,
> > > perhaps a bit more work, and then closed.
>
> > In other words, each task is a mini project by itself. How well does
> > Jira handle that?
>
> > > We've also
> > > made some stuff to pull information out of Harvest and Jira and show
> > > this on a
> > > wallboardhttp://redant.com.au/blog/the-story-behind-our-wallboard/
>
> > That's really nice.
>
> > > you might get further along by finding an existing tool (there are
> > > thousands out there) and then building something that works with that
> > > if you need to.
>
> > I've not seen one that handles the richly structured hierarchy that I
> > use and want,
> > except the indented plain-text files which are my current fall-back.
> > Truthfully, a
> > web-based solution would have to be pretty good to be better, for
> > small projects.
>
> > Clifford Heath, Data Constellation.
>
> > > regards
>
> > > Ben
>
> > > On Jan 31, 6:54 pm, Clifford Heath <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > It's not cheap, but surely if you're already using MS Project, a
> > > > distributed MS Project
> > > > Server would be cheaper than building it yourself?
> > > > <http://www.microsoft.com/project
>
> > > > Or doesn't it handle cross-project resoursing like you need?
>
> > > > The possibility for scope creep is huge in a system like you propose
> > > > (public holidays,
> > > > vacation schedules, integration with personal calendar systems, etc).
> > > > Been there,
> > > > done that (built a GANTT chart widget in the 90s for Telstra to use
> > > > in
> > > > some scheduling
> > > > system - luckily I only had to build the widget, not the whole app!)
>
> > > > If you want to build it anyway, the graphical elements of the UI
> > > > would
> > > > work best if
> > > > built using Raphael. Raphael is awesome, and doesn't require mad JS
> > > > skillz to
> > > > make it sing, though I've found they help :). All the drag&drop
> > > > capability you need
> > > > is either already there, or you can add it
> > > > athttp://github.com/cjheath/Raphaelle/
>
> > > > Not willing to hazard a firm guess at what price you'd get those
> > > > skills though. Anything
> > > > from $60-$120 an hour, and the rate won't necessarily correlate with
> > > > the productivity :).
> > > > I wouldn't try to push it down to $40, or you'll probably get a nuff-
> > > > nuff.
>
> > > > Clifford Heath, Data Constellation,http://dataconstellation.com
>
> > > > On 31/01/2011, at 5:55 PM, Tim McEwan wrote:
>
> > > > > Thanks Julio.
>
> > > > > To clarify - this system will be custom-built so it won't work in
> > > > > exactly the same way as the others. From what I've seen of them,
> > > > > they're all about planning one project. The interface I describe
> > > > > will plan only one project, but our system manages 100+ active
> > > > > projects at any one time, so the interface needs to give feedback as
> > > > > to whether you're allocating someone who's already allocated
> > > > > elsewhere. It's also the way my colleagues have been used to
> > > > > planning projects, so we can't change the interface too radically
> > > > > (to the calendar style, for instance). We have something similar to
> > > > > it already, but it's just a series of input boxes for weeks going
> > > > > forwards (and is consequently terrible to use). We only just
> > > > > managed to ween them off Excel, but they're seriously pining for
> > > > > draggability. ;-)
>
> > > > > And also to clarify, when I said "how much" I meant $/hr.
>
> > > > > Thanks again!
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tim McEwan
> > > > > Sent with Sparrow
> > > > > On Monday, 31 January 2011 at 17:37, Julio Cesar Ody wrote:
>
> > > > > > Maybe you don't need to replicate MS Project or Omniplan's
> > > > > > interface
> > > > > > for it to be usable. Why not a Google Calendar-like one? Personal
> > > > > > preference aside, for the task you just describe, it's suitable.
>
> > > > > > > - would you stick with Rails/JS or go with Flash/Air/whatever-
> > > > > > > that-
> > > > > > > microsoft-one-is?
>
> > > > > > Rails/JS. Though I'm no expert in Flash/Air to judge how easier/
> > > > > > harder
> > > > > > it would be. I tend to think you'd be painting yourself against a
> > > > > > corner by going down that route.
>
> > > > > > > - how much is a Rails/jQuery guru of the required calibre?
>
> > > > > > If the requirements are really just the ones you've mentioned,
> > > > > > back-end wise it's dead easy to built. As for the interface, not so
> > > > > > much. But perhaps you don't have to start from scratch →
> > > > > >http://www.queness.com/post/656/10-beautiful-jquery-and-mootool-calen
> > > > > > ...
>
> > > > > > > - do you think the time estimate is feasible?
>
> > > > > > Yes. Should the requirements stay as such.
>
> > > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Tim McEwan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > I want to build a MS Project/Omniplan-style project planning
> > > > > > > interface in a
> > > > > > > web browser. I'm really keen for jQuery & HTML5 and stuff, but if
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > going to be a ludicrous undertaking, I'd settle for something like
> > > > > > > Flash.
> > > > > > > We basically need to allocate team members to tasks and then time
> > > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > team members, but ease of use for non-techies is key, so we need
> > > > > > > things to
> > > > > > > be draggable.
> > > > > > > I'm thinking me (Rails moderate, no jQuery) + one Rails/jQuery
> > > > > > > guru for two
> > > > > > > months @ 35 hours/week oughtta do it. Am I dreaming?
> > > > > > > If you'd be so kind, please send me your thoughts on:
> > > > > > > - would you stick with Rails/JS or go with
> > > > > > > Flash/Air/whatever-that-microsoft-one-is?
> > > > > > > - do you think the time estimate is feasible?
> > > > > > > - how much is a Rails/jQuery guru of the required calibre?
> > > > > > > - would you like to be that guru? *
> > > > > > > - no really, am I dreaming?
> > > > > > > * It'd have to be onsite at UTS, if you're interested.
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Tim McEwan
> > > > > > > Sent with Sparrow
>
> > > > > > > --
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