Steve
At 11:18 AM 3/19/2013, you wrote:
and this is why I use a combination of methods.
Javier,
Javier Valencia, PE
O: 913-829-0888
H: 913-397-9605
C: 913-915-3137
From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Tellef
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:59 AM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
Well the problem with remote desktop is that it blanks out the screen at the other end... So it's not usable if you want someone to see what you're doing.
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Javier Valencia < [email protected]>
To: RBASE-L Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 8:54 am
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
That is correct, whichever workstation/server is hosting the VNC session would allow only on user at a time. Before I was granted access to their server, my client had a workstation left on all the time so I could connect at any time and access the application from there; I imagine most clients would not be willing to do this because of security concerns. In many ways they work similarly to Remote Desktop except they seem more efficient and the data transfer portion is A LOT faster than Remote Desktop.
Javier,
Javier Valencia, PE
O: 913-829-0888
H: 913-397-9605
C: 913-915-3137
From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Tellef
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:34 AM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
So real vnc and ultra vnc wouldn't work for my situation as it looks like it's a one-remote to one-host situation, not multi-users sharing the same system.
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Javier Valencia < [email protected]>
To: RBASE-L Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 1:27 am
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
Karen,
Real VNC and Ultra VNC are remote access packages; pretty much the same thing as the venerable PCAnywhere was but a lot less expensive. Basically they allow you to access a remote computer desktop and work on it from a remote location as if you were in front of the computer. The keyboard and mouse on the remote computer and the actual computer are operational so both, the person accessing the computer remotely and the user in front of the computer, can access the application at the same time. In conjunction with a phone, it is ideals to do remote training. The workstation being accessed does all the processing and the remote computer just gets the screen refresh, so the data transmission is minimal and hence very efficient.
The setup you mentioned is very inefficient as you are moving lots of data back and forth. Even if the database and application are located in the same server, the remote computer is still doing the processing, with every command requesting and sending data from and to the server. Hopefully this makes sense.
Javier,
Javier Valencia, PE
O: 913-829-0888
H: 913-397-9605
C: 913-915-3137
From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Tellef
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:08 PM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
I've heard of Real VNC and Ultra VNC but I don't understand what they do.
The way we have it setup now, the database, applications (not-compiled) and RBase software are all on the same server. We tried installing RBase locally on one laptop to see if it made a difference. The person said that maybe it was better but not much
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Javier Valencia < [email protected]>
To: RBASE-L Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2013 12:32 pm
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
Karen,
This is pretty similar to what I do to support clients. To simplify things a little the VPN is the protocol that connect you to their network; once connected there are several ways you can access the different network components. Once I connect to their network I typically use one of two methods:
If I want to work on the system, I typically connect to the server via Remote Desktop and from there I open an R:Base session (compiled) and it works just like being there. Since the work is being done at the sever, only the screen is updated so the data traffic is very low and response is good. Note that if you have only one license for Remote Desktop when someone else logs in the current user will be disconnected. This is not an issue since I am normally the only one connected this way and most of the work I do is after working hours.
If I want to update forms, reports or views, I upload the files to a server drive through the Windows Explorer that you can set up (on the Remote Desktop setup) to display your local drive, and then I have a (pass worded) utility within the application that allows me to select a file and run it; this works great for updates since R:Base allows you to do this in multi-user mode. I also have a simulated R: prompt that allows me to execute command not otherwise available through the application menus. Please note that Remote Desktop is very slow for large data transfers; it is not too bad if you just want to load forms/reports/views.
When I need to make structural changes to the database, I do it late at night when no users are connected. As indicated, Remote Desktop is too slow so I VPN into their system and then connect to the server via Ultra VNC and I use its data transfer utility do download the entire data base and after changes are made upload the updated data base back to the server. As a reference, downloading the 4 database files (700 MM) takes app, 3.5 hours using Remote Desktop but only 15 minutes using Ultra VNC. I personally prefer Real VNC but the client is unwilling to pay $40 for a license with data transfer capability and hence I have to use Ultra VNC which is free go figure.
When I need to demonstrate a procedure to one of the users, I connect to the system via VPN and then connect to his/her specific workstation using the IP address and Real VNC (Free version = no data transfer capability) and I am on his/her desktop; the work is being done at the clientâs workstation so response is good, and they can see what I am doing and they also have access to the application while I explain what I am doing on the phone. I also use this setup when a user wants to show me something that is not working correctly or need modification. It works great.
In reference to your application you mentioned that they do work remotely via VPN and their laptops; what exactly are they accessing in the sever? Are they accessing an R:Base database running the R:Base application on their laptops? This is extremely inefficient and eats lots of bandwidth and in my opinion, almost unusable.
What work exactly are you wanting to do? Would one the setups I outlined above work for you?
Javier,
Javier Valencia, PE
O: 913-829-0888
H: 913-397-9605
C: 913-915-3137
From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Tellef
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 9:52 AM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
I should have mentioned, everyone has a work laptop, so their computer goes home with them. No "work" computer to remote into.
Thanks for the reminder about RBase licenses! Forgot to factor that in.
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: mlindner <[email protected] >
To: RBASE-L Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2013 9:45 am
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
There are a number of ways to run this and it sounds like they are doing it the slow way.
You can VPN in and work on your own machine (home) or vpn in and work on a machine thru remote desktop at the site.
If you are running rbase over a vpn with the program on your local machine, it is very slow because the date travels over the net to you.
If you use remote dektop and run rbase on a machine at the site it runs at network speed, since only the screens and keystrokes travel. You do not need any extra licensing from MS for the remote desktop to an on site machine.
If you can remote dektop into the server it is the fastest as all the work runs local at the server and there is no LAN delay at all. You can run 1 or 2 sessions on the server in Admin mode with no added MS licensing. For more users you do need to buy licenses.
Not sure on how the RB licensing goes. May depend on the versions.
Mark Lindner
Lindner & Associates PC
400 Hunnewell St, Needham MA 02494
PO Box 920435
Needham MA 02492 0005
781 247 1100
Fax 781 247 1143
EFAX 857 366 9691
Toll Free 888 658 4269
Direct 781 247 1160
Hours M-F 9:00 - 5:00pm
THIS IS A COMMUNICATION FROM A DEBT COLLECTOR, ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen Tellef
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:36 AM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
Dan: That's what I was wondering... So they VPN, get their "normal" desktop, but rather than clicking on an RBase icon to connect the regular way, they would instead have a remote desktop icon that connects to the database server. And it would operate just like me using remote desktop to connect to any other client's server.
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Goldberg <[email protected]>
To: RBASE-L Mailing List <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2013 9:27 am
Subject: [RBASE-L] - Re: VPNs again
If they are running windows server you can user remote desktop to login to the server(as long as they have it turned on). By default you are allowed to connect as an admin to the server through remote desktop services without any additional licenses.
So in theory, you can login to the vpn and use remote desktop to the server name(or ip address), and be like you are on the server.
Dan Goldberg
From: Karen Tellef
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:44 AM
To: RBASE-L Mailing List
Subject: [RBASE-L] - VPNs again
We've had this talk before, I think, but I need to revisit.
My "biggest" client is the one who bought a multi-million$$ package about 10 years ago and said "RBase will be gone from this place". And I've been doing work for them weekly ever since (they ended up buying a corporate license) because they can't get reports out of that package (we do data dumps and uploads, they refuse to let me connect to their database).
It got even funnier when last week I got approval for a brand new RBase project from them. However, alot of people work remotely through a VPN, including me. I always do my work locally and transfer up changes. A 1-second update command can take 2 minutes over the VPN so guess how long a full program takes to run.. So far it hasn't trashed the database, but it's unusable.
So I think VPNs will be an issue on this new project. Now keep in mind: this company has NO inhouse IT people at all. I have no one to call and talk to. Just a general email to "help", no clue who will answer, no clue the expertise, everything is outsourced like I am.
There's no way they will purchase a separate server to put RBase to use for something like terminal server. As it is they are "hiding" all RBase-related expenses because they were supposed to get rid of it 10 years ago. So we need to keep expenses low and installation easy.
So is there a way to keep the VPN login, but from there then initiate some kind of remote control to the server they're already on? And also keep in mind that I am clueless about this stuff so I won't understand overly-techie talk. But if I can get a short, pithy talking point that I can throw out there and have them put one of their IT people on it, that would be great!!
Karen
, so
