Patrick, I wrote to Riv during the pre-buy and they encouraged me not to go in that direction so I didn't buy one. Was curious if anyone else tried it. I had a bike with North Road bars and never felt that secure when descents neared 30 mph. Haven't tried any of the other upright bars, just too comfortable on 48 noodles with bar end shifters. Steve
On Thursday, March 3, 2016, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Zed -- very well put. You are very right that bar height and stem length > (and st angle) can make a huge difference; something I forgot when I posted > earlier. > > I recall the 56 cm Sam Hill I owned: it had a 59 cm tt, while I prefer 56 > or 57. But the sta was 71, not my usual 73, so this took care of about half > of the "excess tt length," and raising the bar about 6 cm above my normal > road postion (road bikes about 3 cm below saddle; Sam about 3 cm above) > brought the bar back further, and the position was quite comfortable, > though different from that on my road bikes. > > However, when I found a Fargo, with road-bike-length tt, I found I > preferred the position on that, even if it didn't have the typical > Rivendell feel overall. > > So, Steve Sweedler, your question makes more sense than it appeared to me > at first, and I'll be interested in learning, if you do install a drop bar, > how it feels. > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:04 AM, Zed Martinez <iamzedmarti...@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','iamzedmarti...@gmail.com');>> wrote: > >> I have some thoughts on this, after a winter of various ugly wind >> conditions and trying to find the position I like best on my Clem. One is, >> the stack and reach if you measure them out on the Clems is not nearly as >> extreme as the bikes look. Part of that whole 'expanded frame' notion. For >> the 52 H I get real stack and reach of about 580 and 407. If you use the >> provided headset, the effective stack and reach are closer to 620 and 394. >> All of which are pretty intense for road bikes, but aren't actually >> disfavorable against adventure bikes like the Soma Wolverine and VO Piolet. >> With one catch. The 52cm Clem measures out like a non-Clem frame a couple >> sizes larger. Those numbers line up about the same as a L Piolet or a 58cm >> Wolverine. (Just for comparison, on paper the stack and reach compare >> pretty true to size against the Surly Pugsley and Ogre, both of which are >> clearly more mountainish upright bar bikes, just to show what the Clem aims >> to be by the numbers.) >> >> OK, so, that's the on-paper stuff. You don't have to look at that long on >> the actual Clem frame to feel that maybe stack and reach aren't quite >> telling the whole story this time though: >> >> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/clem-stack-reach.png >> >> That's a lot of the relevant part of the bike sitting behind the bottom >> bracket, no matter how you slice it. It certainly lends a lot of weight to >> the 'designed for upright bars argument.' I think there might still be a >> few cases where you can cheat that, but I think cheat is probably the right >> word. For most riders, the offset from the BB the seat tube angle provides, >> available saddle rail adjustment range, and low choice of seat posts with >> smaller set-backs will probably be enough to leave the Clem best suited for >> upright bars. But, for the super curious, my thoughts on trying it anyway >> (since I've been thinking about it myself ever since the first guy >> suggested why not drops when these were first announced). >> >> I think the key is how if you want to fit it as a drop bar bike then it's >> effectively several sizes larger than how it's meant to be fit. I'm a PBH >> of 81 or so, which puts me kind of on the low end fit-wise of my 52cm H >> Clem. I traced out the fit on it against my old 54cm Fuji road bike that >> held a lot of the parts now on my Clem for me last year. For the same >> saddle height (around 70-71 depending on how I eyeball it that day), they >> aren't atrociously different in the end, other than the Clem clearly having >> the bars much, much higher. >> >> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/clem-vs-fuji.jpg >> >> However, that was using a 100mm Technomic Deluxe on the Fuji, but an 80mm >> Dirt Drop sunk literally as low as the Clem allows on the Clem. I had to >> put a longer stem on the Fuji to make the albstaches work for me. When I >> used drops on it, it was most comfortable with the 80mm Nitto standard >> quill it came with. So, if I was to try the same thing as a starting point >> for fitting drops on my own Clem, I'd have to find something with 20mm less >> reach than that Dirt Drop stem, and that's going to be tough-to-impossible. >> If I just put drops on my Dirt Drop I could probably still use them, but >> I'd be in what Thorn calls a "sporty" position, and, that seems to defeat >> the point of going to a modern Rivendell for me. >> >> http://zedmartinez.com/samples/bike-position.png >> >> But, I think if I was on the larger end of a given Clem's fit range, >> instead of the smaller end, it might just be possible to use drops and have >> it be in a normal position range. It'd still run long, like an adventure >> bike or an old drop-bar mountain bike. But, isn't that effectively what >> this is? It wouldn't ever fit like a Sam or a Roadeo or any other more >> normal 'road' bike with drops, but I think with a short stem and the saddle >> way up fitting it more like a compact frame and less like an expanded one, >> there may be some people who could put a drop on and not be unhappy. I'm >> not saying I'll ever try (my albastache might still be too aggressive on it >> for me, we'll see once the weather stops beating me up so much and I can >> tell what's the bike and what's just riding 40 minutes in a 30mph >> headwind), but yeah. If you're well aware of what you like and how far you >> can reach, and you size on the larger end of a Clem to fit it more like a >> bike several sizes larger... maybe? I think it's the limitation of just the >> 3 sizes more than the long top tube keeping it from being easier to play >> with the idea of drops. If it came in 5-7 sizes it'd be a little easier to >> misuse the sizing intentions and cheat that, but with only the handful it >> seems like only a selection of people will be able to play around like >> that. Anyone in the middle of the size range would have a harder time >> dropping to the next size down and not just being cramped, I think. >> >> For most people, upright bars at least make more sense. And for that >> Rivendell bars higher and closer fit ("very relaxed" or "relaxed" by >> Thorn's nomenclature), vs a "fairly relaxed" or "fairly sporty" position, >> some sweep is definitely going to be needed. >> >> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 10:53:10 PM UTC-5, Steven Sweedler wrote: >>> >>> Has anyone set up their Clem frameset with drops, comments, pictures. >>> Thanks, Steve >>> >>> Rancho Palos Verdes, Ca. >>> >>> -- >>> Steven Sweedler >>> Plymouth, New Hampshiret >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com');> >> . >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com >> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com');>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. > Other professional writing services. > http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten > ************************************************************************** > ************** > *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a > circumference on which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities > revolve. *Chuang Tzu > > *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the > world revolves.) *Carthusian motto > > *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart > > *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com');> > . > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com');>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Steven Sweedler Plymouth, New Hampshiret -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
