Very cool! Yup, that explanation mirrors my personal experience. Couple of tries till it feels bang-on with the lock ring. Just like adjusting hub cones, or cage-bearing headsets. That BB looks pretty nice. I'm definitely up for trying one of these again.
On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Grant Petersen <grant6...@gmail.com> wrote: > Here's one, and forgive my continued warning. I promise you this is not > good old fashioned reverse psychology. > > This style emerged because it's simple and it works. It got extinguished > in the late '80s or early '90s NOT because after a hundred or more years > some smart modern mechanic found a flaw that all before him or her had > overlooked, but because they're a minor pita to learn how to adjust. > There's the theory of adjustment, which is simple and is this: > > The fixed cup on the drive side goes in with a shop tool, and crank it > hard. > Grease the cup and/or the ringed bearings, then place them > balls-facing-outward in the cup. > While your fingers or brush is greasy, you might as well grease the > adjustable/non-drive side cup and bearings, too. While you're at it, get > grease on the cones (bearing surfaces) of the spindle, and heck, great the > belly of the spindle, too. Why not? > Insert the plastic accordion sleeve, which strictly isn't necessary. It's > there to isolate the assembly from water that might leak in from above. But > many cool guys ditch the plastic. > Then insert the spindle with the correct (usually long) side sticking out > the fixed cup. > With the bearings greased and facing outward (from the bike's point of > view, so INTO the left cup), grease the threads on the adjustable/left side > cup and screw it in. You'll need a "pin tool" to complete this job. > Some threads will be sticking out. Put the notched lock ring on those > threads. > > The final adjustment takes some skill and time and experience and feel, > which is why nobody uses these as original equiment anymore. It cannot be > done with power tools, and you don't want a first-timer adjusting your bb. > Any conscientious individual can do it just fine, but it'll take many tries > and retries to nail the adjustment, because as you tighten the lockring > against the shell, it has the effect of pulling out (loosening) the > adjustment. So, you get what seems like a perfect adjustment, then you go > to lock it in and it loosens, and it loosens because the adjustable cup > gets pulled outward, away from the bearings. > > The skill and feel come in by knowing how too-tight to make it to account > for the loosening, and different bottom brackets and frames will require > different amounts. You sometimes try to hold the adjustable cup's > adjustment with the pin tool as you lock it there with the lockring, but > sometimes tightening the lockring makes the adjustable cup move, anyway. > It's the opposite of Plug-n-Play, but the thing is, it is NOT THAT HARD as > long as you don't require perfection on your first-thru-fourth tries. As a > home mechanic, you need to buy some tools. The fixed cup should be put in > with a shop tool, and new bike shops might not even have those anymore. The > cheap tools are the lockring tool and pin tool, and in the old days you > could get them both for $30 combined, but I don't know what it is these > days, and a normal bike shop won't stock them. > > The Tange BB's will be available in a range of dimensions, Eleven caged > balls, not nine. Hard and smooth, best finish. Some details still being > worked on, and we're not the drivers of this project, but have had some > input. There is no ETA on 'em. Strike 2.8! > > > On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Mark Reimer <marknrei...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Nope. You must've missed my comment. Phil wood bearings are for sunny >> California. My Phil BB and hub bearings never last more than a winter. They >> are not suitable for cold and wet climates. And don't get me started on >> their free hubs hah >> >> On May 2, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Brian Campbell <bdcampbel...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Phil Wood! ;-) >> >> On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 1:27:48 PM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote: >>> >>> Haha! I'm terribly curious how you'll determine who qualifies as a >>> "newbie with romantic/retro sensibilities but no experience with this kind >>> of BB." >>> >>> You know, up till this moment I had zero interest in cup and cone bb's, >>> and never would imagine considering going back to one. maybe that's because >>> I'm not aware of a quality option out there. But given the fact that my >>> environment destroys bearings in every BB I've tried, including Phil Wood, >>> within a season, maybe a cup and cone would be exactly what I need. >>> Self-serviceable with nothing but a couple special wrenches and a tube of >>> grease. Hmmm.... >>> >>> Say Grant - who will be manufacturing these BB's? >>> >>> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:32:07 PM UTC-5, Grant @ Rivendell wrote: >>>> >>>> BB spindle length: >>>> >>>> It's always safe and usually best to use the bb the crank maker >>>> recommends, or (more to the point) a dimensional equivalent. I'm not going >>>> to address taper here, just quick notes about length. It comes down to >>>> chainline, which has nothing to do with the chain. Almost everything >>>> anybody could possibly say about CL has already been said by Sheldon on his >>>> site, but I don't remember whether he addressed derailers there, so I will >>>> fast here. Chainline is how far out from the center of the seat tube the >>>> middle ring on a triple sits, or the midpoint between two rings on a double >>>> sits. >>>> >>>> There are two common chainlines, I mean three: >>>> >>>> 43 or 43.5mm (I forget)--for road doubles >>>> 47.5mm -- for road triples and hybrid-like bikes. >>>> 50.5 or 51(I forget) -- for mtn bikes >>>> >>>> "For" means "typical," not "the only way." >>>> But what it means is that mtn bike front derailers can reach farther >>>> out and can't drag in as close as road front derailers. >>>> >>>> Example: If you put a Sugino or Silver crank on a 110mm bb spindle, the >>>> chainline will be 47.5, and an XT or any other mtn front derailer will be >>>> able to shift to the big ring, but not to the small one. To fix that, you >>>> put a 113mm bb spindle, which changes the CL from 47.5 to 50.5, and it all >>>> works. >>>> >>>> There is no perfect correlation bwt Q-Factor and CL. In general, mtn >>>> cranks are for bow-legged cowboys and they have high Q's, but it's easy to >>>> design and make great mtn cranks with mtn bike CLs and low-Q's (under >>>> 163?). The mtn crank makers don't generally do that, though, because then >>>> their cranks won't fit onto lots of expensive and prestigious bikes that >>>> have chainstays that stick out too far in the wrong spots and so require >>>> higher Q-Factors. >>>> >>>> This doesn't address durability, but it's rare to hear of $40 bb's >>>> crapping out. Not unheard of, but it's not unheard of at any price, either. >>>> We are going to stock an ol' cup-and-cone style BB in ass't lengths >>>> sometime this year. It will cost more and we'll refuse to sell it to -- how >>>> do I best say this? -- a "newbie with romantic/retro sensibilities but no >>>> experience with this kind of BB." We certainly won't quit selling the $40 >>>> Shimano bbs, which are so good. What we will do, when it all happens, is >>>> extol the theoretical virtues of the old kind...which, given the reliabiliy >>>> of the new kind, are undeniable, but may not matter. >>>> G >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 1:27:49 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Why are more expensive bottom brackets more expensive? What do you >>>>> gain? Is it just durability? Or is there any sort of performance gain (ie, >>>>> does it roll smoother, faster, etc)? >>>>> >>>>> I've worked on most bike parts now minus the bottom bracket and >>>>> headset. About to change cranks on my hunqapillar form the Sugino triple >>>>> (with a 107 or 110 bb) to a White Industries Eno (with a 113 bb). Trying >>>>> to >>>>> figure out if I go w/ the $40 bb on Riv's site? Or a White Industries or >>>>> something similar? This bike will see 500-1000 miles a year on dirt and >>>>> some mud. And support the occasional overnighter. >>>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/uQgg6v9B0tk/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/uQgg6v9B0tk/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/uQgg6v9B0tk/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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