> I think I will be way, way under MAF for quite a while yet.

And, this morning, all of that changed.  I was instructed to keep a more
elevated heart rate for sessions of at least 20 minutes in length and up to
30.  I'll need to work up to that.  The PT used the Karvonen formula and
calculated an average target HR of 124, just a beat over my adjusted MAF
HR.  So, back to the gadgets.  It looks like I might be sweating sooner
than expected.  I might need to mount the trainer tire sooner than expected
also.  It turns out he does do some cycling and even has a spin cycle at
home.  I didn't get too much into his cycling background; too busy
exercising.

Tim

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Tim Butterfield <timbutterfi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Patrick,
> I use a Fitbit also.  I took your advice and did some periodic quick
> checks during my session at home this evening.  For my 10 minute session, I
> was only doing about 2.8 mph in about the third lowest gear of my 3x9.
> Cadence didn't show; think I need to adjust the sensor position.  Per the
> Fitbit, my heart rate was about 74 bpm.  I thought I was keeping it real
> low and it seems to be shown by the numbers.  I think I will be way, way
> under MAF for quite a while yet.  It gets a bit higher than that, about 90,
>  just putting on and taking off the brace.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 8:54 AM, Deacon Patrick <lamontg...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Great points, Tim. I'd not remembered we shared the barefoot and MAF
>> journey years ago. Thanks for the reminder! Yes, I do it all by feel. I
>> recently tried a Fitbit and found I actually fall by feel squarely where I
>> thought I did, based on the reality that the age drop off is less than
>> Mafftone's equation shows.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:19:09 PM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> So, back to the gadgets. :)   Not shown in the picture was the Garmin
>>> 820 on the stem, though it was turned off.  There is also a QuadLock mount
>>> on the bar just in front of that for my iPhone.  For now, I only use that
>>> for the countdown timer to end my session.  My last rides before the
>>> accident had been recording simultaneous data from the Garmin and the
>>> WahooFitness app.  The Tickr X HR strap sends both bluetooth and ANT+ as
>>> does the current Blue SC sensor.  If you look closely at the last picture I
>>> posted, you can just about make out the sensor.
>>>
>>> At the slow speeds I'm doing now, I barely break a sweat, just motion,
>>> no speed at all yet.  The tire was barely touching the trainer, almost free
>>> wheeling.  I have now tightened it up for future rides, but have not
>>> plugged in the controller yet.  I won't do that until I start more strength
>>> training in therapy.
>>>
>>> I remember MAF well.  I promoted it on Barefoot Ted's minimal running
>>> list way back in 2009-10.  I, and I think Tuck also, guessed it was not as
>>> effective for older adults.  I ended up switching to a more lenient HR
>>> method, what felt comfortable.  My rest/max HR at the time was 60/197.  I
>>> haven't tested max in many years.  I'm 52 now and have no aspirations of
>>> ever competing, just staying as healthy as possible.  Before my ACL
>>> accident, average HR on a ride was usually in the 130-140 range with max HR
>>> usually in the 150-170 range.  Rides were under an hour, usually 30-45
>>> minutes.  It was enough to be comfortable without pushing too hard, not
>>> much for hills on those rides either, certainly nothing like what you
>>> have.  I had planned to just slowly build range and ability without pushing
>>> it too hard, still do once I get back to where I was.  I had been reading
>>> Friel's Fast After 50 and had thought of trying some of those ideas, but
>>> was only part when through it and then stopped after the accident.  I may
>>> go back and finish that once I have recovered a bit more.
>>>
>>> For now, going back to following a more strict MAF method might be
>>> beneficial, especially during my recovery phase, so a max of 123 (180-52 =
>>> 128 and then -5 for recovery).  It might be -10, but it's been a while
>>> since I reviewed the method.  Phil was going to have an app also, but it
>>> has been 'coming soon' for quite a long time now.  Once I get there, I can
>>> use the MAF tests to let me know when I plateau and can resume going by
>>> feel.  IIRC, you were pushing for that method way back when.  It seems
>>> funny that we have kind of switched places a bit.  :)  Failing memories are
>>> not helping the recall on the specifics, though, so I could have this
>>> incorrectly.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reminder.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamon...@mac.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Something to consider is a HR monitor so you stay within your aerobic
>>> threshold (not too low, not too high) a la Maffetone. The basic formula is
>>> 180-age for the magic hr. It does an amazing job of building endurance and
>>> promoting recovery. Until I did it, I thought I was in shape. I wasn't. I
>>> was over exercising big time. Build aerobic base, then add in sprints etc
>>> after you've recovered and build up the base.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 7:03:37 PM UTC-7, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>>
>>> Howard,
>>> That is a very generous offer.  I really appreciate it.  I have one of
>>> those Schwalbe Insider tires.  It's this one in 700x35:
>>> http://a.co/77tQjXx  As mentioned in my reply to Glen, I'll be putting
>>> that on once I get up to doing it.
>>>
>>> So, a separate recovery thread?  I'll try to remember to do that as a
>>> celebration of reaching my half hour session limit and getting the trainer
>>> tire on for an updated pic.
>>>
>>> Thanks again.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Howard Hatten <yoh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim
>>> I have a 700 trainer tire I'm not using that I will give you. All you
>>> have to do is start a new thread and report on your recovery and eventual
>>> return to the road. Contact me off list with your shipping details and I'll
>>> send it out.
>>>
>>> Howard
>>> Livonia Mi.
>>>
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