Very good point, Jeremy. I like the looks of my Rivendells, but looks are
as nothing compared to the fit and handling and "feel" of them, which each
of the 5 Rivs I've owned has exhibited in one degree or another, but enough
that it is set apart by this from any other bike I've owned. It's this
straight line stability combined with non-hesitating and yet not-too-eager
turn in that defines the handling brand.

Good to know that this is kept in the current crop of "cruisers"; I may be
riding one, one day.

Interesting: The Sam Hill I owned (circa 2013, 56, single tt) exhibited
this "unerring" quality in fast downhill sweepers particularly strongly,
though it was rather slow in turn in compared to the 2 road bikes I still
own.

How long are Clem chainstays? Those on my 2 Roads are 44.5 to the center of
the dropouts (tho' the '03 has been modified with longer -- very long! --
dropouts by C Matthews (without doing anything to mar the handling, though).

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Jeremy Till <jeremy.t...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Indeed to further the argument, I would suggest that what Grant is doing
> with the "cruiser" bikes (by which I mean the proportional chainstay bikes
> like the Cheviot, Clem, and Appaloosa) is very much trying to achieve the
> handling of those early road-ish bikes but for an upright fit and wider
> tires.  I recently took my Clem on a 2 day credit card tour, a ride that I
> had previously done a couple of times on my then-upright barred Long Haul
> Trucker.  The Clem was definitely an upgrade--it climbed super well, but
> where it really shined was the downhills.  The stability and planted
> feeling afforded by the longer chainstay design really gave me confidence
> to take corners at high speed in a way that a traditional touring bike with
> upright bars had not.  In fact, I thought of you, Patrick, and how you're
> always praising your Rivs as being stable but with a wonderful "turn-in,"
> and I thought to myself, "This must be what he is talking about."
>
>

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