I also need to check seat post size. If it is not 27.2 then I may need to 
look elsewhere if it doesn't have a long TT because I cannot use the lugged 
setback seatpost (I am of the stumpy legs and chimp arms variety). I honed 
the ID of my 27.0 ID seat tube Bombadil to about 27.1 so I could use the 
lugged seatpost.

I seem to remember many years ago, when the most important aspect of a 
saddle was it's weight, putting my elbow up to the seat tip and seeing 
where the end of the stem was to determine stem length - ideal was the 
longest finger reached the bars. These days - in order to be comfortable, 
it is way beyond that - not trying to fit on a racing bike anymore.

Cocoa, FL

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:58:51 PM UTC-4, tc wrote:

> Garth, yep, I know stack and reach.  To my weird brain though, if I know 
> PBH, and I also know the goofy  
> "[top-of-seatpost-at-comfy-height]__to__[center-of-bar-flats-at-comfy-stem-height]"
> measurement on a bike that I know fits me well, then I'm an instant away 
> from seeing whether another bike can be configured to fit me well ... 
> whether I have stork legs and t-rex arms, or stumpy legs and chimp arms.  I 
> don't think you can say the same for PBH-only bike sizing.
> If you take that latter goofy measurement on a bike that fits you well, 
> and cut a piece of string to that length, then 'overlay' it on a bike 
> you're thinking about getting, you'd be able to see in an instant whether 
> you can get a stem with the right reach (and height) -- plus a saddle with 
> enough adjustment in the rails for proper setback -- for the new bike to 
> fit you just as well as your existing bike.  Assuming your PBH is also 
> accommodated.
> I know, weird, and likely overkill if you're in the middle of the PBH 
> range. But there are many who are in between PBH ranges, and/or don't have 
> 'normal' upper/lower torso ratios.
> Tom
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:52:17 AM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>> Tom,  The standard measurement these days by more and more frame makers 
>> is called the reach, along with the stack.  Riv has recently added these to 
>> their geometry chart and can reveal how deceptive TT alone can be, let 
>> alone any 1 certain measurement by itself. 
>> All of the numbers are meant as a guide of course, as every body is 
>> unique, some more/less flexible and feel best in this or that 
>> position...not what someone else tells them is best for them. 
>> There are many articles explaining it, here's one ... 
>> https://velovoice.blogspot.com/2015/05/bike-sizing-stack-and-reach.html

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