Good work. It sounds like you'll get it sorted. I'm glad I could point you to the right area
Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 11:21:53 PM UTC-7 Litho wrote: > Thank you, Bill. You got me to open the freehub again and remove all of > the pawls and springs. I tried to put it back with 3 pawls, but the > retaining ring wouldn't hold just three of them in place very well. They > were flopping all over the place and had so much play that the return > springs did nothing. Which got me to thinking about the strength of the > return springs under the pawls. The "spring" of the pawls was really weak > when I pushed down on them, even with all six in. They barely popped back > up. To the point that the hub made almost no ratcheting noise when > coasting. Very quiet except for the occasional pinging. I actually > remarked to my wife how strangely quiet the hub was, much quieter than the > XT hubs on my Atlantis and far quieter than any other hubs I've had. I > figured it was a design feature. > > Long story short, I pulled on the springs a bit to elongate them just > slightly and then put the hub back together. It's buzzing nicely now, the > click of the pawls ratcheting is not perfectly simultaneous but much closer > (you were spot on about that!), AND I can't make it ping anymore. The > pawls have more force pushing them against the ratchet in the hub now. I > don't know why the springs wouldn't have been like that out of the box. > > I'll have to test it some more tomorrow to see if that really took care of > it, but it seems to have made it better for the moment. > > Thanks again for the detailed analysis. Very helpful! > > > > On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 9:27:45 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: > >> OK, you answers are all as I expected. I don't like the idea of six >> pawls. It's what we call an overdetermined system. The idea with six >> pawls is that each carry 1/6th of the load, but in order for that to >> happen, the machining has to be absolutely positively perfect. The >> hardness of pawls themselves is extremely hard. The hardness of the >> splined drive shell is extremely hard. All six have to hit their groove >> perfectly. Imagine building a wooden table with six legs out of hard oak >> in your garage. It would be really hard to build that table with such >> precision that all six legs carry 1/6th of the weight of the table. It >> would be hard to even get all 6 legs to reach the ground. >> >> I suspect the requirement for absolute perfection is not attainable every >> single time with hubs with that design. You might get lucky and have all >> six perfect, and you may be unlucky. To convince yourself that you are >> just a little unlucky, turn the freehub body backwards as slowly as you >> can. If it was manufactured perfectly, you will hear one CLICK, but it's >> really all six clicks happening simultaneously. See if you move slowly >> enough to separate the clicks. I suspect you'll find it easy to identify >> that there is one early, or one late. >> >> To prove this is the cause, the test I recommend is to do exactly what >> you'd do with your six-legged table: change it to a three-legged table. A >> three-legged table self-levels because it can. Remove three of the six >> pawls and ride your bike. I bet a dollar the PING is gone. >> >> If that works as I expect, then you have something to discuss with your >> builder. I personally think that six pawl design is dumb and three pawls >> is ample. I think "upgrading" from 6 to 3 is an improvement. I'd just use >> the wheel with three pawls and have a three spare pawls on hand. You may >> decide it's a manufacturing defect and demand a new wheel under some kind >> of warranty. I won't instruct you how to resolve the issue. >> >> best of luck >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> On Monday, September 21, 2020 at 8:34:15 PM UTC-7 Litho wrote: >> >>> >>> [image: Hub_01.jpg][image: Hub_02.jpg] >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7844c1d0-0727-4d95-bcc6-028da889c943n%40googlegroups.com.
