Received my fire red bombadil in 2008. On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:32:15 PM UTC-5 Paul Brodek wrote:
> I have a Starck-built '98 Custom Road, serial stampings and signature > shown below. Photo is from the previous owner. JS was definitely building > for Riv in '98-'99. > > Paul Brodek > Hillsdale, NJ USA > > [image: 50044245932_0c68181c44_o(1).jpg] > On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 7:08:20 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote: > >> Regarding builders: Joe Starck definitely built Road and All Rounder >> frames. I'm not so sure he built Rambouillets, unless perhaps a prototype >> or two? >> >> It occurs to me that the Roco Bebe kid-carrier bike is missing from your >> list. >> >> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 1:34:30 PM UTC-7 Fullylugged wrote: >> >>> Those are pretty collectible then! >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> As Ryan stated there are in fact a few RS-made Rivs out there. Very >>> few. >>> >>> >>> Joe Bernard >>> >>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:22:14 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote: >>> >>>> Sachs designed the lugs used on the earliest models. He didn’t make >>>> them or any frames. Waterford was the earliest vendor and as others have >>>> noted, a few other small builders have helped over the years, Nobilette >>>> most recently. Toyo did several frame models for a period of about 5 >>>> years, >>>> and Panasonic had one too. Panasonic and Urema did painting in Japan. >>>> Maxway in Taiwan has been a major supplier of late. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always >>>> had a long waiting list? >>>> >>>> >>>> I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used >>>> theirs. >>>> >>>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan <ryte...@mts.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus) >>>>> and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from >>>>> Waterford >>>>> and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 >>>>> and >>>>> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road >>>>> delivered >>>>> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , >>>>> one >>>>> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom >>>>> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and >>>>> Nobilette >>>>> started. 2005 or so? >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go >>>>>> and all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, >>>>>> Bruce, >>>>>> Keith, and Joel! I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of >>>>>> this >>>>>> thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, >>>>>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking >>>>>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, >>>>>> back >>>>>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders >>>>>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect. It's worthwhile adding >>>>>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint >>>>>> choice will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of >>>>>> the beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means >>>>>> :D >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The >>>>>>> line between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the >>>>>>> early Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Grant's ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the >>>>>>> discussion >>>>>>> a custom is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at >>>>>>> purchase >>>>>>> time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nice work, Jason! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the >>>>>>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model >>>>>>>> getting a >>>>>>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, >>>>>>>> I've only ever seen two of them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joe Bernard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom >>>>>>>>> Allingham's Flickr): Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa >>>>>>>>> exploration, >>>>>>>>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how >>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right? And am I >>>>>>>>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> MIT batch rolled in? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from >>>>>>>>>> about a 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> ways to go before I'm any sort of expert). Of course, my >>>>>>>>>> "knowledge" is >>>>>>>>>> limited to what I've found either in the reader or on the website >>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>> most part, and there's a lot that's not really covered in those >>>>>>>>>> spots. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as >>>>>>>>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah. So then on the >>>>>>>>>> '95 >>>>>>>>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain >>>>>>>>>> (Expedition? >>>>>>>>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry? From memory the >>>>>>>>>> Road >>>>>>>>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike >>>>>>>>>> because I omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious >>>>>>>>>> decision. I >>>>>>>>>> welcome (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this >>>>>>>>>> regard. I think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when >>>>>>>>>> models >>>>>>>>>> either underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders >>>>>>>>>> (AHH and >>>>>>>>>> Atlantis being obvious ones). This might turn into a full wiki, not >>>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess! I have webhosting >>>>>>>>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Good effort. I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once. My >>>>>>>>>>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa. I >>>>>>>>>>> know it >>>>>>>>>>> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, >>>>>>>>>>> paying >>>>>>>>>>> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains >>>>>>>>>>> were - >>>>>>>>>>> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - >>>>>>>>>>> they DID >>>>>>>>>>> have an actual model name and head badge. I don't think I'd >>>>>>>>>>> consider them >>>>>>>>>>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the >>>>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>>>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars >>>>>>>>>>> like the >>>>>>>>>>> bosco. Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Nice Jason, and needed. The Road was followed quickly by the >>>>>>>>>>>> Road Standard, I think by '96. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv >>>>>>>>>>>>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via >>>>>>>>>>>>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it >>>>>>>>>>>>> was rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of >>>>>>>>>>>>> rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of >>>>>>>>>>>>> snapshots of these sites today). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as >>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if >>>>>>>>>>>>> you can >>>>>>>>>>>>> point out omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>> permutations of some of these models of course - I have pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>> detailed >>>>>>>>>>>>> notes about where each model was made (including many which went >>>>>>>>>>>>> through a >>>>>>>>>>>>> few shops) in addition to the timeline, which I plan to include >>>>>>>>>>>>> in whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>> final form this takes. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Note: I left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering >>>>>>>>>>>>> prototypes to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant; I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Road >>>>>>>>>>>>> 55.5 are ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have snuck >>>>>>>>>>>>> past my research so far. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4957f13b-b0a0-4941-a22f-0818be8d63ddn%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4957f13b-b0a0-4941-a22f-0818be8d63ddn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Sfo4Wj7PYss/unsubscribe >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5DYgoDG05oRB8og9T0OzDQd5FY7nmONP1fmXgU_2K1v%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5DYgoDG05oRB8og9T0OzDQd5FY7nmONP1fmXgU_2K1v%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Sfo4Wj7PYss/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ca3b8635-506c-4036-b1f7-bdc2e7abf932n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ca3b8635-506c-4036-b1f7-bdc2e7abf932n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c5445085-0697-45ba-b24f-f896dbc7120dn%40googlegroups.com.
