That seat stay cap was used across various models - I don't know if it is a Riv-sourced custom piece - but it doesn't have anything to do with Waterford (nor is it intended to be a "W" - just a decoration.
On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 3:51:23 PM UTC-7 Hetchins52 wrote: > Here’s mine. A Toyo by its serial number and Frank’s pics. You can see one > of the third water bottle mounts at the top in the photo. > Year? I don’t know. I bought the frameset third-hand, six years ago, and > thought it might be 2009 using some of the info on CycloFiend. > > David > On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 2:47:51 PM UTC-7 frank_a wrote: > >> [image: 7052F7D8-A7C3-40E9-BF7D-7549C10B03C0.jpeg][image: >> C25083FA-4E17-4971-90D1-18B4084AC777.jpeg] >> The serial number will tell you if it’s a Toyo or Waterford built frame. >> Toyo serial numbers are large and run across the bb shell while the >> Waterford numbers are smaller and are oriented around the shell, parallel >> to the outer edge. One photo is a Saluki and the other photo is a Waterford >> built Rosco. >> The Toyo Atlantis’ read: AT0001 and so on, Homer: AH0001 >> SA0026 - the 26th Saluki >> - Frank >> >> On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 11:26:35 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote: >> >>> I looked on Cyclofiend and where they were visible, the Atlantises all >>> appeared to have the W. It may not be related to Waterford after all. >>> >>> Laing >>> >>> On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 10:48:29 AM UTC-4 Danny wrote: >>> >>>> The early Atlantis brochures show the W on the seat stay cap with Toyo >>>> being the only listed builder in the brochures. My Riv knowledge is not >>>> very deep, so perhaps Waterford was building the Atlantis as well at that >>>> time? or Riv was buying the seat stay caps from them? >>>> >>>> Atlantis 2001 brochure >>>> <http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Atlantis%2001.pdf> >>>> Atlantis 2002 brochure >>>> <http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Atlantis%2002.pdf> >>>> >>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-09-02 at 9.15.04 AM Medium.jpeg] >>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-09-02 at 9.36.37 AM Medium.jpeg] >>>> >>>> -Danny >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 7:41 AM Bill Schairer <comm...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In general, is one not able to tell from the serial number? >>>>> >>>>> Bill S >>>>> San Diego >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 11:50:12 AM UTC-7 RichS wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That is a first class detail. Don’t believe it was on my formerly >>>>>> owned 2014 Waterford Atlantis so perhaps the W was featured on certain >>>>>> models? I am fond of concave seat stay caps though. Happy that they’re >>>>>> on >>>>>> my Sam. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Rich in ATL >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:06 PM, J J <junes...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Laing, thanks for the interesting bit about Waterford-built frames. >>>>>>> This is the first I hear. I never noticed the W as a deliberate W (as >>>>>>> opposed to being strictly an embellishment) on my Waterford >>>>>>> Hunqapillar, so >>>>>>> it was cool to see it for what it is. I had to check the other Rivs in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> stable, all Toyo built, and of course none has the W. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks again! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: Hunq Waterford seat stay end.jpeg] >>>>>>> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 9:47:06 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Don't Waterford frames have a distinctive seat stay end cap with a >>>>>>>> 'W" in the recess - my Bombadil does. This is a better picture from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Waterford site, but the same as my Bombadil: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [image: >>>>>>>> 6881680380_566caa3985_z-nwiouwjw51r3qwj11ieoc8axc7o69w290ux5x1it4w.jpg] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Laing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 3:05:54 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> THAT'S it. I knew there was a difference between the two but >>>>>>>>> couldn't remember the detail change. But I think yours is backwards, >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> recollection is Toyo had two sets of bottle bosses and the later >>>>>>>>> Waterford >>>>>>>>> got the third set. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 12:01:05 AM UTC-7 Hetchins52 >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not sure that it is totally definitive but I expect the Toyo AHH >>>>>>>>>> to have three water bottle boss pairs and the Waterford to have two >>>>>>>>>> pairs >>>>>>>>>> (none under the down tube). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David Lipsky >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:11:42 PM UTC-7 James wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have an older AHH. Anyone know how I can tell if it's Toyo or >>>>>>>>>>> Waterford made? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 5:52:35 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had an older MUSA AHH 61 (2006-ish?) and a Taiwan Sam 62 >>>>>>>>>>>> (2015-ish) with 2TT and for a brief spell I also had a 2TT 58. All >>>>>>>>>>>> of them >>>>>>>>>>>> were 700C. I should also say that they are all gone at this point, >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>>>>> wrong with them except my own unnecessary searching for the next >>>>>>>>>>>> shiny >>>>>>>>>>>> object. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Both are amazing frames and can be set up very similarly - I >>>>>>>>>>>> think your tires, racks and handlebars would probably determine >>>>>>>>>>>> the feel >>>>>>>>>>>> and ride more than the frame geo, tubing or anything else. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Some details on the way mine were set up: both had front and >>>>>>>>>>>> rear racks, sidepull brakes and short stems: >>>>>>>>>>>> AHH 700x38 + dropbars >>>>>>>>>>>> SH 62 700x44 + dropbars >>>>>>>>>>>> SH 58 700x42 + Albatross >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It has been said that the Sam is burlier or that the tubing on >>>>>>>>>>>> the Homer is slightly lighter and the lugs are more elegant. To >>>>>>>>>>>> me, they >>>>>>>>>>>> were both equally capable, perhaps the 2TT Sam felt a tad stiffer >>>>>>>>>>>> particularly when loaded, but it certainly didn't feel slower. >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, at no >>>>>>>>>>>> point did I feel like my AHH couldn't carry as much as the Sam. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Are you trying to decide which one you'd buy? If so, I would >>>>>>>>>>>> choose based on availability, color, badge, name, which one do you >>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> more beautiful? Oh and sizing: which one fits you better? If you >>>>>>>>>>>> can find a >>>>>>>>>>>> frame where you fall in the middle of the suggested PBH range for >>>>>>>>>>>> either >>>>>>>>>>>> the Sam or the AHH I would choose that. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure if this helps, but I think Grant said it best when he >>>>>>>>>>>> said it was hard to tell one from the other when you were riding >>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best. >>>>>>>>>>>> Max >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 4:38:49 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Grossman >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What made your the Roadini a superior all around bike compared >>>>>>>>>>>>> your AHH-MUSA/MUJ ??? Was the Roadini more lively, handle >>>>>>>>>>>>> better, ride >>>>>>>>>>>>> better, or something else??? It seems the Roadini is more a >>>>>>>>>>>>> pure road >>>>>>>>>>>>> bike vs the all around nature of the AHH. Just curious. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> John Hawrylak >>>>>>>>>>>>> Woodstown NJ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 10:25:19 PM UTC-4 Dave Grossman >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have an older Homer (not sure if it is Waterford or Toyo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'd like to know actually) and having owned a Roadini I can >>>>>>>>>>>>>> say I find >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a much superior all around bike. I hadn't considered a Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a Hunq but I can do light touring and backpacking with my Homer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> desire. I rotate it in my commuter stable with the Hunq and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> end up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> riding it quite often. I currently have it set up with Crust >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Towel bars >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with a large Fabs in the middle!), VO fenders, and 44s. I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it maxed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out, but it is such a great ride. I've thought about getting a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stripped >>>>>>>>>>>>>> road bike but the Homer is so versatile. I think if I didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunq, I'd be more inclined to get a Sam. But if you already >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a hauler >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an older Homer is the way to go. I have a 63, which I am on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> small side >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for with a 90 pbh, but it fits great and I love the ride. My >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hunq is a 58 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and while I can clear a 62 (I've ridden the 62 before) I love >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clearance that a slightly smaller frame allows for the rough >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 4:27:16 PM UTC-5 ttoshi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just to be more confusing, I have a circa 2012 Homer, and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe the even sizes are 650b and the odd sizes are 700c, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some overlap within some of the sizes. I have a 54 cm AHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 650b, and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe the 55 cm and 57 cm were 700c, while the 56 cm was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 650b. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My Homer maxed out at 38 mm tires + fenders--I've used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parimoto, Lierre, GravelKing, and Soma Xpress, and all are good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending upon the application, eg. commute vs fast ride). My >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> favorite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tire size for 650b is 42 mm, and I believe the Sam H can ride >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fenders, so I might lean that direction if I had to choose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toshi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/zxdEQemEm80/unsubscribe >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/90658a3b-4909-4f4f-b114-e02c77cacf32n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/90658a3b-4909-4f4f-b114-e02c77cacf32n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e6fa2abb-ebbc-4d11-8b81-1582d6500f6cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e6fa2abb-ebbc-4d11-8b81-1582d6500f6cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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