Responding to Bill L's 2nd thought experiment, here's my quick $0.02 (can't
find the cent key)
Is Cyclist A's bike fast? It's as fast they like it to be. They report
'happy' not necessarily fast
Is the magical encouragement claimed by Cyclist B all in their head?No, with
the initial gearing, they felt a higher gear would be ok and it worked out to
be so. Good for them
Is "a slightly under geared bike" and "encourages me to ride one cog smaller"
the exact same thing?
Good point, in this case it seems to be.
Assumptions1 both bikes have same tubing since weight is given as 17# for both
with no qualifications for other components2 A and B weigh about the same,
within 20#
ObservationThe gearing change was about 6% higher in both cases or about 4.4gi
if using 700x32 tires (74.4gi to 78.8gi). This is pretty much my upper
cruising range, so we are not talking hills.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 02:03:29 PM EST, Bill Lindsay
<[email protected]> wrote:
I only got one taker on my last thought experiment. Here's another one:
Cyclist A has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the fixie,
install a 49x18 and ride it around. They decide "This seems a little under
geared." and they switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride that and decide
"this is just right" and ride the bike happily
Cyclist B has a 17-pound fixie. They take a guess at a gear for the fixie,
install a 49x18 and declare this is "usual". They ride it around and find the
bicycle encourages them to ride one tooth smaller. They obey the bicycle's
encouragement and switch the 18 tooth cog for a 17. They ride that happily,
and ask everyone around them "What makes this bike encourage me to ride one
tooth smaller than usual, consistently?"
Is Cyclist A's bike fast? Is the magical encouragement claimed by Cyclist B
all in their head? Is "a slightly under geared bike" and "encourages me to
ride one cog smaller" the exact same thing?
Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CA
On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 9:42:00 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
OK, thought experiment time!
You have to build four bikes. All four bikes must fit you identically. All the
contact points of all four bikes will be identical. All four bikes will have
geometry/handling that are similar enough to each other that you'll concede
they ride/handle the same.
Bike A is for sand and has 3.0" wide tires and weighs 30 poundsBike B is for
grocery runs, pavement and firm dirt. It's got front and rear derailleurs and
weighs 30 pounds unloaded and 75 pounds with groceriesBike C has an IGH and is
used for pavement and grocery runs. It weighs 28 pounds unloaded and 73 pounds
with groceriesBike D is a stripped down fixie for unloaded pavement rides only.
It weighs 17 pounds
You mostly ride bikes A, B and C. Every once in a while you ride bike D and
every time you do, it feels amazingly fast and easy to pedal.
Question: Why does Bike D feel fast and easy to pedal?
Bill LindsayEl Cerrito, CA
On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 10:12:25 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
All bikes have the same effective sta: the 1999 and the Matthews #2 clone both
have 73* stas, and the Matthews #1 has the saddle forward on the rails to
compensate for the 72* sta. I start setup with saddle height and setback wrt
the bb centerline -- pretty close to identical for all my bikes -- and use the
saddle to gauge bar and brake lever position.
On Sun, Jan 7, 2024 at 2:49 PM 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners
Bunch <[email protected]> wrote:
Patrick
Maybe this was asked/answered, but is the STA or saddle setback the same on
Ford Blue as the others?? Are you in a different position??
John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 5:35:08 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
This is hardly a new question for me or for others, but it is a question that
strikes me anew when I ride the 1999 Joe Starck and find, once again as always
in getting on for 25 years of ownership that it's just easier to maintain speed
and cadence in given conditions in given gears, this both on the flats and on
hills. I remember being struck by this, again at the start of each ride on it,
in the first years of ownership.
Tires make a difference, tho' it felt this way with 571 X 23 mm Conti Grands
Prix and Michelin Pro Races and with 559 X 23 mm Specialized Turbos; with the
slightly wider (27.19 mm rear at 60 psi and 27.49 mm front at 55 psi on my 19
mm OW rims) and even lighter and more supple Elk Passes it feels even faster
and smoother.
BTW, I wholly discountenance the opinion that harshness or vibration makes
riders think they're going fast. At least, perhaps some people do that, but
I've always associated harshness with slowness and smoothness with speed. But
again, the '99 has always felt smooth and fast.
What provoked this perennial question was my very pleasant mid-afternoon ride
today. My route included about 1 mile of steep hill starting at Broadway and,
feeling tired and sluggish and being old I considered swapping the Phil
17/19Dingle wheel (76" and 68") with the SA TF wheel (76" and 57" underdrive),
but didn't want the bother and decided I'd just walk if necessary.
I did plan to move the chain to the 19 t/68" gear once I got downtown, but
didn't do this, either. Winds variable up to about 7-8 mph.
I took it easy but found myself following some youngster on a thin-tire 700C
derailleur hybrid for about 8 miles; I finally caught up to him at the first
light on Coal and followed him up the climb. I think he was a UNM student and
at least 45 years younger than I, and he put a few yards on me up the hill
spinning in a low gear but I was surprised once again (this is the point, don't
mind my meandering) at how well and easily the bike climbs.
???
Planing? The frame is not as over-beefy as the 2003 Goodrich custom but it's
not as light and certainly has fatter tubes than the wonderful thinwall 531
normal gauge 2020 Matthews replacement of the 2003.
Weight? With the Phil it's right at 18 lb without bottle or bag versus ~28 for
the Matthews road with F+R racks, fenders, lights, and SA 3 speed hub, and
versus the 30-31 lb of the Matthews road-bike-for-dirt with 2X10 derailleur
drivetrain, 50 mm tires, 2X gauge fenders, dynamo lighting, and rear rack. But
it feels fast on the flats at steady-state cruising. I daresay that the weight
makes a difference on hills, but I don't think that weight is the only reason.
I know that some bikes just fit and feel "perfect," and this is one of them
(tho' the 2 Matthewses fit just about the same since I built them up to do so).
That old Herse was a tank that 2 earlier owners sold for cheap but for me it
rode "fast" if not as fast as the 1999 Joe Starck.
To end this meandering: since so much of my riding is either errands requiring
bags or dirt requiring fat tires the 1999 gets ridden less than it otherwise
would, but if I had to get ride of all bikes but one, I'd happily keep this and
build 1 or 2 alternative wheelsets (geared/skinny, geared/fattish) and buy a
bit selection of strap-on saddlebags from repair kit only to Sackville Medium.
I've owned 5 Rivendells including 3 customs and this one is the last (tho' the
2020 Matthews is a copy of the 2003).
Sorry, can't resist posting again:
--
Patrick MooreAlburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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