Echoing Bill on here. I also look at stack and reach, and have nearly the same dimensions as the OP
I had a 53 Atlantis from the last run as it was correct for my PBH as I’m between the 53 and 55, after deep dives on stack and reach(in particular) I realized what made the bike *feel* small to me. I should’ve sized up to a 55 instead, and similar to Bill have now scooped a 56 hillborne from another list member as it’s the biggest size non step over riv I can fit. Roman told me that the 54 Sam would feel bigger as far as standover(mostly due to the 700c wheels) but the bike might feel similar to the Atlantis for stack and the reach is shorter. He actually suggested a 60cm Plat with my seat slammed since I’m 6 ft tall. And I know Grant rides a 59cm Clem with only a slightly taller PBH than I have. All that to say, I think I’ll be sizing up henceforth as I like toscos or albatross bars usually and don’t mind the straddle heigh being close! On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 6:42:10 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Johnny said: "the 51 SH I owned seemed as large or larger than the 54cm > Rambo" > > I agree with that. A 51 Sam is "bigger" than a 54cm Rambouillet, IMO. My > comment had to do with the OP's height at 5'11". A 5'11" person would > probably do best on a 60cm Ram. At 5'10" I'd pick a 60cm if you gave me > any size I choose. A 57 Hillborne would be a little bigger than a 60 Ram, > and a 54 Hilborne would be a little smaller. The OP deleted their post so > it's maybe a thread we should let die. > > Here's a comment to those who are super confused by the numbers associated > with bike sizing: it is super confusing. Different people have different > approaches to normalize bike fitting. The method I use is pretty common, > and pretty contemporary, and that is Stack and Reach. I keep my Stack and > Reach numbers in my pocket and go from there. The numbers I use are 600mm > for Stack and 390mm for Reach for a roadish drop bar setup. I have a ton > of bikes, and the names of their sizes range from 47 all the way to 62, but > are all where I want them to be in Stack and Reach. Looking for those > numbers the 54 is right there in Stack for 5'10" me, but it's a little > short in the Reach department so I'd need to run a longer stem with drop > bars and forget about it for any kind of upright bar setup. The extra > reach of the 57 would make an upright bar setup more straightforward, and I > could slam the stem because the stack is high. If you have a bike that > "fits" I think it's a really good idea to figure out the Stack and Reach on > that bike and use it for comparison. The OP on this thread said they have > a Salsa Vaya. Looking over that geo-chart, I can say for certain I would > not ride a Salsa Vaya in any size. None of them gets me in the > neighborhood of where I'd want to be in Stack and Reach. I think that's > another important piece of knowledge: to know that not every bike model on > Earth comes in "your size" and to know how to not-buy the wrong bike. In > 2024 where there are fewer and fewer "test rides", that's an important > ability. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 3:02:07 PM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote: > >> With the way these bikes are designed the 51 SH I owned seemed as large >> or larger than the 54cm Rambo that I owned at the same time. For road >> riding I would not have wanted to go larger. But I also admit that I don't >> like having no standover clearance so thats part of it for me. One of the >> big reasons I like step-over/thru frames. But IMO Riv's already have fairly >> long reach and (obviousl) long wheelbases so moving up for a drop bar setup >> just seems way to stretches out. Honestly I prefer the 50cm Gallop I have >> for road stuff to the 51cm SH I had. >> >> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 5:24:51 PM UTC-4 ian m wrote: >> >>> It's pretty wild the differing opinions people have on upsizing or >>> downsizing based on cockpit choices. I'm with Bill on this, and I think Riv >>> tends to suggest smaller sizes than necessary, maybe because there's still >>> consumer pushback to running shorter stems? Everyone thinks they need a >>> 10cm for optimum handling or something. >>> >>> But why would one aim for a 51 Hillborne to use drops and a 54 to use >>> sweptback bars? The reach difference is 6mm! That's less than the >>> difference between the stem you have and the next size up or down. >>> >>> Maybe it's better from a consumer happiness standpoint to have customers >>> on a too small bike, as they'll feel more comfortable with the extra >>> standover clearance, and Riv has moved far more upright than even the >>> recent past. When in-between two sizes I'll always go for the largest I can >>> standover (on a roadish bike anyways) >>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 1:34:29 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>> >>>> OOPS! the OP deleted their post. It's worth pointing out to people >>>> that this Google Group is basically an email activity. You can delete a >>>> post, but it's deleted the same way an email is deleted. It's out there. >>>> >>>> BL in EC >>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 10:32:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm 5'10", shorter than the OP, and I think I'm between sizes on the >>>>> Hillborne....but not between 51 and 54. I think I'm between 54 and 57 on >>>>> the Hillborne. >>>>> >>>>> My Saddle Height is 75.5cm, so my PBH is probably in the 85-86 range. >>>>> I own an older 56cm Hillborne which is perfect, used to run a 56cm >>>>> Bombadil which was perfect. >>>>> >>>>> When I went to buy an original run Leo Roadini, the Riv guys leaned >>>>> towards a 54. I was surprised because that felt like a significant >>>>> downsize. I disagreed with them and got a 57 and it was terrific, albeit >>>>> with no standover clearance. If I had to replace my 56 Hillborne with a >>>>> current Hillborne I'd almost definitely get a 57. >>>>> >>>>> Does that make me ever more of a weird upsizer than the reputation Riv >>>>> has with people like Johnny? I'm not sure. The idea of a 5'11" human on >>>>> a >>>>> 51cm Hillborne doesn't seem right to me. >>>>> >>>>> Is your Salsa Vaya a perfect fit? do you want to share a photo of >>>>> your setup? >>>>> >>>>> Bill Lindsay >>>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 9:38:33 AM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I agree with Johnny. Think about how you mostly want this bike set up >>>>>> and size accordingly. You had mentioned wanting an Albatross bar setup, >>>>>> so >>>>>> if it were me, I would go with the 54cm and longer top tube that will >>>>>> play >>>>>> nicely with the swept-back bars and longer stem required for said bars. >>>>>> I >>>>>> also have a PBH that's between 83-84, even though I'm a little shorter >>>>>> than >>>>>> you. If I were buying a new Sam, I would purchase the 54cm size, and I >>>>>> would probably also run some sort of swept-back cockpit. I already have >>>>>> a >>>>>> drop bar Riv, and a fat-tired Riv, and those are the only two factors >>>>>> that >>>>>> would make me want to size down to a 51cm. >>>>>> >>>>>> Brian >>>>>> Lex KY >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 11:40:27 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am between sizes as well and my general rule is...if I want a more >>>>>>> traditional setup/fit (maybe with drop bars) I size down. If I want to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> laid back, more sweptback style I go up. With your PBH if you want >>>>>>> drops go >>>>>>> with the 51 otherwise the 54 might be best. If you want to size up but >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> standover gives you pause then consider a Platypus. I understand the >>>>>>> advice >>>>>>> to call Rivendell but (from my experience) they are almost always going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> push you into a go larger direction and that has not historically >>>>>>> always >>>>>>> worked for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 11:20:35 AM UTC-4 DavidP wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oooh, a new Sam - exciting! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) Send Riv an email and get their recommendation, they're great >>>>>>>> with this stuff. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) I'm a similar height but have an 87cm PBH. With your torso >>>>>>>> length I'm guessing you'll want more reach, the concern is the >>>>>>>> standover on >>>>>>>> the 54cm Sam if you max out the tires. Either way you'll probably want >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> long stem on that Albatross. My 58cm top tube Albatross bike has a >>>>>>>> 120mm >>>>>>>> stem. The drop tube bikes (Susie, Platypus, Clem) are great for >>>>>>>> getting a >>>>>>>> longer fit without worrying about standover; I'm on a 60cm Platypus >>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>> reach is luxurious. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Dave >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 10:43:16 AM UTC-4 Robert Calton >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Haven't had luck pinning down a used bike this last week, so I'm >>>>>>>>> thinking I might try and buy a new Sam in May/June with the refresh >>>>>>>>> and I >>>>>>>>> don't know if the 51 or 54 frame size is the right choice. Compared >>>>>>>>> to my >>>>>>>>> current bike, a 55cm Salsa Vaya's standover of 77.6cm and top tube of >>>>>>>>> 55cm... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 51 Sam standover: 78.6 (+1cm from Vaya) >>>>>>>>> 51 Sam top tube: 56.5 (+1.5cm from Vaya) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 54 Sam standover: 82.0 (+4.4cm from Vaya) >>>>>>>>> 54 Sam top tube: 58 (+3cm from Vaya) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> An 83.8 PBH was the highest measurement out of the 10 or so times >>>>>>>>> I measured. Most of the time it was 81.2 - 82.5 range. I'm 5'11 with >>>>>>>>> a 30" >>>>>>>>> inseam. Riv says a 51 Sam is 79-83 and a 54 is 83-86. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would like to run Albatross bars and be comfy about it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Which frame size should I choose? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0bddf5ed-db00-4242-a048-987a9f43dc93n%40googlegroups.com.
