Noah, I did NOT KNOW THIS. And that new stem is slammed way down in there. I have a Faceplater coming and will install it immediately. Thanks for this but also š±.
Although we still donāt know that itās the stem, and in fact, Will thinks itās the sleeve on the bars. He decided to ask Nitto about that sleeve and probably sent the video of my ticking bike. He emailed today and I will include this because so many people are reporting problems with the sleeved Nitto bars:
HI Leah, OK, I heard straight from the source, Yoshikawa-san himself. He says: "If you hear a sound in the center of the handlebar, apply a drop of Krazy Glue on each side of the 40mm long hole in the outer pipe.
This usually eliminates the sound. Do not put oil in it, it is not good.ā I think the 40mm long hole is the sleeve. Try it out! I will, too. -will
Of course I already put oil in there so maybe my experiment will be a dud. I want to order a new steel bar with no sleeve. Leah ļ»æ Enjoying following this thread and the process of discovery! (Sorry that it is at your expense, Leah :)). I had the dreaded ticking on some sleeved choco bars with a Nitto quill (not on a riv, a vintage trek). It was only when I leveraged one side of the bars. I put drop bars on the bike and it went away, but who knows it thatās the leverage change or the new bars!
Also, seeing the reference to slamming the stem in the head tube in the last post, just in case you havenāt seen it before, see attached diagram from Sheldonās site about potential dangers of that (which I mention because I saw it for the first time just a few weeks ago)
Noah in Brookline, VT On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 3:19:41āÆPM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
I donāt remember if I updated hereā¦I had a Nitto Tallux 12 cm stem on my bike that I pulled this weekend. I had a tall Nitto 280 mm 10 cm stem that I wasnāt using, so in order to eliminate one thing at a time and reevaluate, thatās the plan. I rode 6 miles today and nothing. Everything feels solid, no noise. The bars are up too high, though. I want to lower them but that stem is slammed all the way in the head tube and canāt go lower. Because they are higher and closer than my normal setup, I canāt yank on them and put my weight on them like I normally do. So they might be behaving because they are not under duress.
Also of note. I would get a now-and-then vibration that sounded like maybe my metal front fender. It would happen at high speeds, which is usually hammering on a club ride. That was non-existent today. Wondering if itās not the fender and instead something in that head tube/stem interfaceā¦
I really hate this. Leah ļ»æGiven that the issue was solved by lubricating the bars previously (as mentioned above ^^^^) I would try a bar swap first. If you have bars that are 25.4 and have no sleeve on hand that are not being used they would be my first choice.
If not these are an inexpensive way to diagnose the issue and it seems you are good with swapping bars on your own.
Good luck! On Monday, October 7, 2024 at 12:11:22āÆPM UTC-4 Mathias Steiner wrote:
On the facts & observations side, we now have one clicking handlebar sleeve, and two (maybe three?) instances of clicking being resolved by cleaning, greasing, and reinstalling the stem into the steerer tube.
We've had zero reports of clicking resolved by headset work, though it's a reasonable possibility.
I'd exhaust the first two possiblities before going to the trouble of squaring and facing a head tube that may or may not need it.
I vote "not need" because it was fine for years.
I recently had a tick develop out of the blue on my 1989 schwinn probe commuter. Nitto stem with the KT bars. I uninstalled and reinstalled the stem and it fixed it. I think the wedge may have been slightly loose and got bound up within the fork steerer.
Little noises like that drive me nuts so i was happy to have it easily resolved. Good luck Leah!
Rivendell is very clear on their website as to why they donāt face and chase frames. They state that they will do it if asked for $30. Iāve done my own bottom bracket shells on two of my bikes that use a cup and cone style bottom bracket, but Iāve been fortunate enough to not have an issue with head tubes. Best wishes. Mike On Oct 7, 2024, at 4:16 AM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <[email protected]> wrote:
ļ»æLeah
Based on the history of the 3 Platys, facing the HT on the one from Vegas (assuming this is the ticing one) may be a good idea based on what Peter White mentioned.
You may want to replace the headset also since they will drive out the existing fixed cups to do the facing and your local shop apparently mangled the adjustable cup. The original headset in your other 2 Platys appear to work ok if the HT faced, so buying a new one should work.
The other unknown is the alignment of the steerer tube in the fork crown, as Peter pointed out This could be checked/measured for perpendicularity when they do the facing since the fork & steerer tube will be out of the frame and can easily be checked. Ask the list members how to measure the alignment of the steerer tube in the fork crown and what to do if it is not square.
John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ
On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 10:54:58āÆPM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
I guess weāll never know. It came from Riv, and it was their sample for their 1st gen Platypuses. It was assembled at a Vegas shop that was heavily racing/roadbike oriented. The mechanic is no longer there and I donāt remember if those were the days when Riv was still doing frame prep. This tic on the stem is new and Iāve had the bike nearing 4 years. Can it show up as an issue 4 years later?
The 2nd Platy came from Analog, and since someone posted that Analog DOES do frame prep, Iāll likely never worry about that one. The newest purple Platy was done here, and to make the Ignite Components stuff work they had to āface the bottom bracketā and it was a real challenge to get those cranks and bottom bracket to work on my frame. Maybe they went ahead and faced the head tube while they were at it? I donāt know!
On Oct 6, 2024, at 10:29āÆPM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <[email protected]> wrote:
ļ»æGarth stated; "
The head tube facing is supposed to be at the time of manufacture...". I think we all agree, but I'm not sure if it isn't done, it's 'unscrupulous'. I think most mass produced frames are faced/chased by the manufacturer.
What I think is poor quality, is whoever assembled Leah's Platy (RBW??) may not have faced the HT. It's a shame, since it is 10 minute operation if done on a bare frame, but probably a 1 hour job after the frame is assembled, with removing the stem, disconnecting cables, remove the fixed cups and then put it all back together.
Leah might want to ask whoever assembled it, if the HT was faced, along with the BB shell. Maybe it was. If it was, then it could be removed from being a cause.
John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ
On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 7:53:55āÆPM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
The head tube facing is supposed to be at the time of manufacture, along with the reaming and tapping of the threads. If the factory can't comprehend it, then it's up to the retailer to do this at no additional charge. I'm surprised how it's being accepted as normal, acceptable or even expected. That work is part of what you're paying for with a new frame. Charging extra would be, to me, unscrupulous. And that's that.
On Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 2:40:25āÆPM UTC-4 Matti wrote:
I have a Sam Hillborne and noticed a headset problem when climbing and applying upper body force to the bars... It was a distinct fore and aft movement that could be felt (but not heard) and it was hard to duplicate the sensation when bike was static on the floor while rocking the bike back and forth with front brake applied. I tried multiple times to adjust the headset, with no luck. I finally brought the bike into a shop and they adjusted the headset, telling me it was loose. So far it seems the problem is fixed, but if it comes back, I'll see if the head tube needs machining/alignment recommended by Peter White. I think that process is considered standard practice for frame prep in some shops: https://analogcycles.com/pages/frame-prep
Leah,
My wife and I both ride Rivendell frames. She has an Atlantis, and I have a Rambouillet. They both ride wonderfully. The frame geometry is excellent. But they both had the same issues with the steerer tube machining and head tube machining that all Rivendell frames have, except for the custom frames. The ends of the head tube are not exactly perpendicular to the geometric axis of the head tube, and the fork crowns are not precisely machined so that the headset parts don't always line up correctly. Take your bike to an experienced mechanic who has the appropriate tools to machine the head tune and the fork crown so that the headset components are in the correct alignment. Then your bike will really shine.
Email me directly and I'll try to find a shop that can fix this for you.
Ted, Iāve had the loose clunking headset on my Betty Foy and your description is my memory of it.
I got 19 miles in this morning. At first, everything was blissfully quiet and sturdy. By mile 12 the ticking came back. Not as bad, but itās there. Remember in the video when I applied pressure to the left grip and could initiate the sound? Now itās in the right grip. I canāt do it consistently and there doesnāt seem to be correlation with weight on the bars. I did throw that bike around heartily today. I took it on a wooded trail with tons of tree roots to bash over and inclines to stand up and pull on the bars.
Itās just so frustrating. Iām worried thereās a more sinister problem, like in the head tube/steerer. Like, please not the frame. I can replace any component and will do so with gladness, but please let my frame be ok. Itās my #1 favorite bike and itās so special.
Joe thinks maybe a new headset. I wonder if I should spring for new bars and stem.
Buying new things to address unknown problems with old thingsā¦sounds expensive. But Iād do it if I knew it would fix the ticking. L ļ»æOn Friday, October 4, 2024 at 4:43:09āÆPM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote: He found that the headset was loose, so he tightened that too (and mashed the headset cup or spacer or whatever in the process).
It's worth noting that, while the frames ship with headsets, they aren't installed. Despite trying to be careful about installation, I have found on all three of my Sams that the FSA headsets seem to loosen up pretty quickly after initial installation, and the linear bearings seem to want the adjustable surface to be pretty tight, tighter than normal ball bearing headsets.
That said, I wouldn't describe the sound of a loose headset as "ticking", it's more like "clunking" and is readily felt and seen by applying the front brake and pushing the bike forward and back.
And I would be irate if a shop mechanic handed back my bike with a mangled part. My headset locknuts are bit scuffed but I only have myself to blame :-)
Ted Durant Milwaukee, WI USA
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