On Sunday, October 20, 2024 at 5:24:47 PM UTC-6 Josh C wrote:
Sounds like you're describing a fully lugged Clem, no? I think this question was to me? Yes, that's what I want - but I guess what I'm arguing is that the new Atlantis basically IS a fully-lugged version of the first Clem. Just with a couple of refinements - those being a slacker head angle and slightly-shorter-but-still-long chainstays. (I hope I'm not offending RBWQH asserting this. Once again, I think it's really great. For people with normal proportions, it's perfect. In my case, all I'd want to do is personalize a few dimensions for fit purposes only. It would be easier if I didn't prefer the rigidity and aesthetics of the diamond frame, I guess, and the current Clem L might even be great.) It isn't that surprising that things evolved this way, in retrospect. Remembering well the first discussion and germination of the Clem idea - not unlike the Bombadil and Hunquapillar before it - the goal was to create a kind of an homage or throwback to older, analog ATBs from the 1980s, before they all got twitchy race geometries and were all built around suspension forks. The most significant differnece being some subtle changes to make them more comfortable - like lower bbs and taller headtubes. The Clem added a few additional criteria though: Less expensive to build; Less likely to get targeted by thieves; Using-up some lugs from an abandoned project. But I feel like it ALSO served as a platform for trying out a bunch of new ideas that ended up being wildly successful: Super-long chainstays, in lenghts that were *proportional* to the rest of the frame; Even longer top tubes to work with the newish-at-the-time, ultra-swept-back Bosco bar. It's wonderful but not surprising how successful and popular the Clem has gone on to be. But as it blazed it's own path, it also sort of morphed into something a bit different. Like the best, most-comfortable and most-useful town bike ever, for lack of another category. To me, that left the original ATB-concept model slot - the thing I most want - kind of missing in the lineup. Gus and Susie are (were) great but, as someone who has a Susie and an early Clem, and who came of age along with the first mountain bikes, they're almost too MUCH "mountain bike" for a daily-rider, do-everything (i.e.: All-Rounder) bike. Those early ATBs were so popular for a reason. They WERE All-rounders, in the truest sense, and got the masses on bikes for the first time. At least where I live. Elsewhere, there was the 70s 10-speed boom, I guess. Even people who didn't live in the mountains like I did bought them. You could ride them all day, ride them anywhere, take them on tours, ride fast, or ride slow. I moved my dad into senior living recently, and his old Stumpjumper is is still in his garage, and I can't bring myself to move it or get rid of it. I like remembering that these bikes even got my parents out riding! Other funny thing is that after that, and once NORBA ruined things, ATB bikes actually became more "road" bike than "mountain" bike for a long, long while. Plenty light, plenty "quick." They just weren't comfortable. So why couldn't the Atlantis be more like an improvement of the original ATB idea than a strict "road touring" bike? If/when I finally order a custom, my plan has long been to tell Grant to "start from my Clem and make these changes...." The new Atlantis just seems so close to what I would do, it almost seems pointless or extravegent to consider now. The Appaloosa is obviously similar and, who knows, I may even like it better if it were possible to try both. Or if I had to own one bike only. And there's a size that would fit better. But, since I can't try them, I have to rely on my preference for longer/lower bikes, developed from riding and getting accustomed to them. To my original point though: The longer Atlantis now just seems as close, if not closer, to the original Clem than it does the Appaloosa. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ad7db688-c032-4f02-aa66-af5746fd11a5n%40googlegroups.com.
