I don't want to derail the stem/clamp/handlebar part of this discussion but call me tubeless-curious. I feel like I mainly see complaints about the difficulty of sealant. Are the benefits (from what I can tell, less weight, less flats) good enough to outweigh the fussiness of setup?
For me, I can't recall the last time I had a flat honestly. Although I am definitely jinxing myself by saying that. And I am not a weight weenie, so I just don't get the appeal of tubeless. I'm ready to be enlightened though! Kat & her monogamous, do it all, Appaloosa On Friday, March 21, 2025 at 10:04:14 AM UTC+10 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote: > Ah man, Ben, NOW what am I gonna do??? > > > > On Mar 20, 2025, at 6:57 PM, Ben Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > > Leah, > > > Well, you got my attention now! Haha. > > A few things: > > > 1. Soma/Merry sales sells an aluminum 31.8 clamp Albatross bar > > <https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/nitto-handlebar-b352-albatross-2766?category=781#attr=3506,1359,1211>. > > It's 1 cm wider (56 vs Riv's 55), but still narrower than the Billie. I > know you just purchased a new handlebars, but this might be option for you > with a 31.8 Faceplater? > 2. I mentioned with in another recent post, but more bolts doesn't > necessarily mean more better. The maximum clamping power of a clamp/stem > is > only related to the lowest torqued bolt in the clamp/stem. I know this is > counterintuitive, but it's all about the bolt size, not the number of > them! > Since M8 bolts can be torqued higher M5, a Tallux stem can be torqued to a > higher spec and likely offer better holding power compared to Faceplaters > with their M5 bolts. (Torque specs are *only *for bolts, those will > break long before you're able to damage a handlebar thru over tightening) > 3. Besides the bolts, the other major factor preventing bars from > slipping is the clamp diameter. That's why MTB have gone to 31.8+ size > clamps (it's not to stiffen them, because then you'd have to increase the > diameter much more than just at the clamp). So, everything else being > equal, an Albatross 25.6 in a 25.6 clamp or shim will slip easier than an > Albatross 31.8 in a 31.8 clamp. (Shims really just convert your 31.8 clamp > to a 25.6 clamp, *not *to 31.8 handlebars) > 4. Final note on torque specs: to get the maximum clamping force from > your multi-bolt stem, always torque to the maximum torque spec. One of the > things that multiple bolts do offer, is a decreased likelihood of breaking > a bolt. However, with a single bolt, you're better off torqueing to the > lower end of the spec, to decrease the likelihood of breaking your single > bolt. And this is the reason why stems with M8 bolts can have only 1 bolt, > but stems with M5 bolts need to have 2 or more. The lower end of the > torque > spec for an M8 bolt is still 2 or more times greater than the max torque > for an M5. > > > All that said, I do have a set of drop bars with 25.6 clamps size in a > 4-bolt stem shimmed from 31.8 to 25.6 on a rigid MTB, so I don't > necessarily think there is anything wrong with it. But albatross bars are > going to generate a lot more torque on the clamp area with their big long > levers of swept backiness :) > > > Best of luck! > On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:38:34 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! > wrote: > >> Hi Ben! >> >> I did now know this hot tip, but boy, it would have helped me. Now of >> course I have it all put in place and am loathe to take it apart again, but >> I’ll google that compound and get it so I have it on hand. >> >> So, the Great Stem Swap of ‘25. >> >> I developed the most annoying tic in my red Platy’s bar/stem interface. >> The bar was aluminum in the 25.4 clamp Tallux. It made me crazy. Adhesive >> was applied to the bar at the collar where the clamp grabs it, which has so >> far worked. But before we realized the source, I was blaming the stem. And >> I thought, that’s IT, I’m done dealing with wide bars on these one-bolt >> stems. And I decided I’d change over all the stems to Faceplaters. >> >> I included my son’s Clem because it lives a rough life and needs the >> security of a 4 bolt stem, I think. He had stock steel Bosco bars in his 59 >> Clem. Ugly. Wide. No collar, just a textured area where the clamp goes. His >> bike wintered at our house, and when we reconnected to go to the Philly >> Bike Expo together, I returned his bike to him and he got to try it out at >> the Philly rides. >> >> The bars slipped immediately. And they had not slipped with the stock >> Tallux stem. Because Riv was at the Expo I showed them. I had installed >> with the torque wrench everything. The fix was we should get rid of both >> stem and bar and replace with the 31.8 clamp Faceplater with a 31.8 Tosco >> bar. That bar was way too wide for the bike to live in college bike racks >> so I said, no, Albatross or Billie, which are 25.4. They said it should >> still be the 31.8 Faceplater stem, even though the bar is 25.4. Would offer >> more gripping. And that’s how we ended up here. I wish I just had a 25.4 >> but I defer to experts because I am afraid of doing things wrong and >> damaging precious sons or their bicycles. >> >> I would not be surprised if Riv is changing these stems. They have >> already DCd the 225 angled Faceplater in favor of the 90-190s. Maybe they >> will get rid of the 25.4 bars and just do the standard 31.8 instead. I wish >> they would, and I don’t know why they haven’t. >> >> Who is still following this? Is anyone tracking? It’s a lot… >> L >> >> On Mar 20, 2025, at 4:16 PM, Ben Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Leah, >> >> >> Can you describe your "Great Stem Swap of ‘25" a bit more? You had a 25.6 >> mm bar with a 25.6 clamp Technomic or similar stem? And wanted to swap in a >> 25.6 clamp Faceplater? But then was told to use a 25.6 bar with a 31.8 >> clamp FP with shims? Is that correct? If so, very curious! >> >> Carbon Assembly Grease/Compound, like Park Tool's SAC-2, is great for >> setting up handlebars with shims. The "grease" acts like a weak glue during >> assembly, holding things in place, much like using actual grease during >> loose ball bearing assembly. But then during operation, it increases the >> friction 'tween the surfaces to help improve the clamping of the >> bars/shims. Maybe you did this? But given your description and >> frustrations, I'd thought I'd mention it. >> >> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 1:02:42 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Kai! >>> >>> I do the exact method you describe - the 4 oz Orange Seal Endurance >>> bottle with tube right into the presta valve. But the tire came unseated >>> anyway. That green bike has been problematic - and last year I had the >>> tires replaced for that reason and it had been fine. No idea why it’s >>> acting up again unless it was just because I unseated it by filling the >>> valve while standing on its kick stand. >>> >>> I’m excited to see this rack! Amazing you can make your own. >>> >>> I have never heard of swapping derailleur pulleys! Anyone? >>> >>> On Mar 20, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I personally think shims are pretty great!, certainly best to avoid, but >>> when they’re necessary to use in order to use what you’ve got, great. >>> One thing I was curious about was your method of sealant refilling. >>> Sounds like you pop the bead out of the wheel and pour it in? Then hope for >>> a relatively mess free reseating? It works, but not as good as sending it >>> through the valve stem. If you’re not familiar, your presta valves on your >>> tubeless wheel sets have easily removable cores that, when removed, provide >>> an open tube into the tire. Orange seal sells these small bottles with the >>> properly sized feeder tubes to make it easy and clean. They also provide a >>> dipstick/reamer to clear that tube into the tire in case that sealant has >>> sealed over the valve. It’s very straightforward and rarely messy, and no >>> reseating of the tire necessary, just pump it up and you’re on your way. >>> As for my bike life lately, I’m working on a rack for my Clem, and was >>> scrounging for small bits of brazing rod last week to finish some small >>> stuffs and accidentally used some brass rod that looked the part. Didn’t >>> “flow” like it was supposed to, but all’s well after some filing and a trip >>> to the olde welding shoppe. >>> Last question- do you and anybody else out there dedicated to friction >>> shifting swap your lower and upper derailleur pulleys? I believe the idea >>> is that no side to side float on the upper pulley gives more feedback to >>> your body’s sensors when it’s not settled, and presumably could lead to >>> less ghost shifting? >>> Curious. >>> -Kai >>> >>> >>> <IMG_1038.jpeg> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 8:23:58 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Ooh, John, fork stops - I did not know about these. I also have a >>>> purple Platypus with a Nitto Basket Rack and the bars DO swing around and >>>> hit the top tube at times. I will go find your thread so I can see what >>>> those are. >>>> >>>> Also, I thought the same re: shims. But this was the rec from RBW so I >>>> went along with it. More clamping surface, and such. I am not an engineer, >>>> just a layperson in that world but I find the flaking of steel unnerving. >>>> And this is my SON’S bike, and heaven forbid I would ever set him up with >>>> something that could be unsafe. (This college kid thinks nothing about the >>>> bike. He *might* notice a flat tire, but I doubt it. He just rides it and >>>> enjoys it and thinks absolutely nothing else about it. I got him new >>>> tires, >>>> dynamo, and better gearing and he noticed none of it on the inaugural >>>> ride.) >>>> >>>> Jay - I have the exact same feelings you do but none of the skill. I >>>> cannot convert bars and install cables and housing…kudos to you for trying >>>> and muddling through when the parts aren’t playing nicely together. I do >>>> not lay in bed and rack my brain over mechanical problems - I hand wring >>>> and feel anxious and desperate until I arrive in Pedal’s parking lot and >>>> see glorious, wonderful M working at the stand. I don’t have anything >>>> wrong >>>> that he can’t put right. I used to cry in Vegas bike shop parking lots >>>> because it never went well and they never understood my bikes and I often >>>> left their shops with new problems. But this shop - they usually get it >>>> right, so if hearts come out of my eyes when I see them, it’s to be >>>> expected because of my long and tragic Bike Shop History. I have been >>>> there >>>> enough that I now have a labor code in the computer -the “Leah Labor Code” >>>> and I’m not joking. For a time there was a Leah Shelf with stuff for my >>>> bikes on it. I am their best, most hapless customer. >>>> >>>> Everyone tells me it’s not hard to work on bikes. That you can’t really >>>> mess things up. But I find it astounding how many little things you can >>>> get >>>> wrong that make the bike unsafe. A couple months ago I had my new stem >>>> slammed and guess what - that’s dangerous. Guess what else - it can get >>>> stuck. Another problem glorious, wonderful M had to fix for me. >>>> >>>> L >>>> >>>> On Mar 20, 2025, at 7:19 AM, John Robert Williams < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Good Morning Leah....I feel your pain....I'm 3-4 hours north of you and >>>> not only do we have the wind off the frigid lake, we've had SNOOOOW...all >>>> the schools are closed up here today in TVC. >>>> >>>> On your tire issue, if you cannot put the bike on the stand because of >>>> not enough exposed seat post, try hanging your bike on the top of the >>>> repair stand by the nose of the saddle...yes, it may rock back and forth, >>>> but they balance quite nicely up there. At least it gets the wheel/tire up >>>> off the ground and allows you to spin the wheel to slosh the sealant >>>> around >>>> before pumping it up. A trick I learned from the sealant guys, (but it >>>> takes removing your wheel) is to put in the sealant in and then lay the >>>> wheel across the top of a 5 gallon bucket (or any bucket, I guess). Then >>>> flip it over, wobble it like a hula-hoop to get the sealant into all the >>>> cracks along the bead. Let it sit for 5 mins at least per side. It always >>>> works for me. >>>> >>>> On the shim front (pun intended), it's at best a draconian crude >>>> "patch" of a mis-match. Stems that don't fit bars, or vice-versa, are just >>>> a full stop for me. They are never a tight, snug fit. Then, as you have >>>> found they dig in and do unnecessary damage to the bar. Shims are a weak >>>> attempt to blend old and new standards. Buy the stem to fit the bar. >>>> NITTO's are nice, but they are not the only game in town. >>>> >>>> On the paint chip, I hear you there too! It would be nice if RBW made >>>> some nice small logo stickers that acted like band-aids over a zit. A >>>> classy solid cover-up that looks like it belongs there. (you seem to have >>>> their ear!). Before I put the fork stops on the Platypus, the front rack >>>> whipped around and took a nice chunk out of the downtube, the first day. >>>> GRRR! Oh well, I'm treating it like a warn-in pair of jeans. They can't >>>> stay showroom perfect forever. >>>> >>>> Please do the WARM UP Sunshine dance for us....the next ten days look >>>> like sheer misery here. >>>> >>>> I hope this helps! >>>> >>>> JohnRobertWilliams >>>> Traverse City, MI >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 10:23 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I just want to talk bikes for a little bit. Threads with subjects are >>>>> great and all, but so is talking shop. And we are about to hit a spate of >>>>> cold weather here in SW Michigan and I am a little morose after a few >>>>> days >>>>> of Pretend Spring. I did get 25 miles in today and Monday, but now I want >>>>> to talk shop. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t know what you all have been up to, but I have been fighting >>>>> with and fidgeting with my bikes. >>>>> >>>>> Recently, I went through a great stem swap where I changed over most >>>>> of my bikes to Faceplater stems. I even put one on my college boys’ big >>>>> old >>>>> Clem with Bosco bars. I even used my new torque wrench, and…the bars >>>>> slipped! So now I have new Albatross bars and stem and shims because Riv >>>>> believes this 31.8 clamp will grip 25.4 bars better. I have little >>>>> experience with shims. And what I have learned about them is that they >>>>> will >>>>> set you to cussing. You want the bars centered, but then the shims slink >>>>> out of their spot. When you want to nudge them just a bit, they have >>>>> bitten >>>>> into the center of the Albatross bar and you must find a way to knock >>>>> them >>>>> loose. Then the whole bar moves and you have to re-center and line up the >>>>> gaps in shim/clamp. When you knock the shims loose a few times you >>>>> realize >>>>> there are metal shavings on your fingers, which means you are damaging >>>>> stuff. And every time you decide to adjust the position you have to fight >>>>> with the shims AND loosen and re-tighten 4 bolts with your torque wrench. >>>>> I >>>>> have emailed 2 people about this, badgering them to check my work and say >>>>> it’s safe. I made peace with the shims being a millimeter uneven because >>>>> at >>>>> least the bars are centered. Then I went to wash the metal shavings off >>>>> my >>>>> hands. >>>>> >>>>> Shims. In short, I hate them. >>>>> >>>>> During the Great Stem Swap of ‘25, I managed to drop a hex wrench. I >>>>> heard the ping of it striking the top tube of my raspberry Platypus on >>>>> its >>>>> way down. Ah, my first real paint chip, and right in a place I’ll see >>>>> every >>>>> day. Tonight, I painted that chip with nail polish I found in a close >>>>> color >>>>> match. It’s passable, but sad. >>>>> >>>>> I turned my attention to the mermaid Platypus, which I have no good >>>>> excuse to have anymore, and noticed the rear tire is flat again. This is >>>>> because on Monday, I decided I would top off the sealant, and could not >>>>> be >>>>> bothered to put the bike in the stand. The clamp on the stand needs more >>>>> seatpost and I didn’t want to raise my saddle. So I did it with the bike >>>>> on >>>>> the kickstand and was never able to recover the seal between rim and >>>>> tire. >>>>> I have gotten by with this in the past. Got cocky and have now been >>>>> brought >>>>> low. Every week, and you can set your watch by it, I do the walk of shame >>>>> into the shop. I fling open their door, the cowbell rings, and I >>>>> announce, >>>>> “Guys! A terrible thing has happened!” I will go there again tomorrow >>>>> because a terrible thing has happened - that seal did not hold and we >>>>> are >>>>> back to flat tire and dripping sealant. They are sick of me at this point >>>>> but they are Michiganders, good folk through and through, and they do not >>>>> let on. >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, Charlie. I’ve been running away with Charlie on club rides. >>>>> High winds have really cramped our style. Charlie and I are on a learning >>>>> curve. I try and find out if the sounds he’s making are benign or >>>>> malignant. There was a screeching pedal (a terrible thing that happened!) >>>>> that my shop addressed. But now there is ghost shifting and something >>>>> whirring when I stand to climb and toss my weight on the drive side of >>>>> the >>>>> bike. Charlie had been denied his accoutrements because I tried to make >>>>> him >>>>> Pure Road Bike and keep his accessories minimal. We failed miserably and >>>>> I’ve junked up the bars just like Charlie’s a Platypus. The final piece, >>>>> his German mirror, arrived today. I still don’t know if Charlie is any >>>>> faster than a Platypus. Nothing is fast in these winds. We are out there >>>>> shredding our thighs, trying to brave winds and get fit for the season >>>>> with >>>>> Charlie and his junked-up non-aero bars. >>>>> >>>>> What have you all been up to? Are you having the same struggles? Who >>>>> else is wanting to throw up their hands and just talk shop? >>>>> Leah >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5175834e-31c3-4cea-87cb-37ee34020bdan%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5175834e-31c3-4cea-87cb-37ee34020bdan%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Robert Williams >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ksvlbi-Jd6w/unsubscribe >>>> . >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAC9csfddSL-XZ0oqJ3w%3DtiDkPj5-LXn7Xt5cL%3DE7_LFAQ9Zyhg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAC9csfddSL-XZ0oqJ3w%3DtiDkPj5-LXn7Xt5cL%3DE7_LFAQ9Zyhg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ksvlbi-Jd6w/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/51fd15ac-1390-4ff8-8fa1-4cf6e89040b3n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/51fd15ac-1390-4ff8-8fa1-4cf6e89040b3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> <IMG_1038.jpeg> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ksvlbi-Jd6w/unsubscribe >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/71869656-0a84-439b-a4ee-28ed1f87d13bn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/71869656-0a84-439b-a4ee-28ed1f87d13bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ksvlbi-Jd6w/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/91c037f2-e7f5-49e9-8dc5-4514e65b194en%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/91c037f2-e7f5-49e9-8dc5-4514e65b194en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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