One bit of advice I've heard it the higher the bars, the further back the saddle should go for any given rider in order to keep open hips. That can mean that as a rider becomes more experienced and want lower bars do to bodily adaptations, that rider may want the saddle further forward. Both of my children went this way as they rode more and more post high school with the end of high school sports commitments. For most of us here (well past our early 20s, I imagine), that might mean moving the saddle back, but it seems like it's a complex relation between femur length, core strength and bar height among other factors. Best, Zach in ABQ
On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 8:01:39 PM UTC-6 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote: > We might be discussing this thread to within an inch of its life, but I > really love/appreciate how many people really like modern handlebars and > also have felt the discomfort that results from having the bars too high! > > "I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” > effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my > ears." > > One more thing on the "turtle" thing: What I've found it that it's often > caused by having the saddle too far forward. Which in turn reduces the > ability to really hinge your pelvis when riding. It encourages one to sit > "on" the saddle (like on a chair), with one's back relatively vertical. > And then of course you have to strain your shoulders forward to try to > reach the bars (causing the turtle effect...) > > Whenever I see someone turtle-ing, I move the saddle backwards and > encourage them to use the saddle as a perch, and not as a chair. They can > then hinge their pelvis, which keeps their back relatively straighter while > bringing their shoulders closer to the handlebars. > > (This also enables you to get into that "pyramid" position that someone > else mentioned.) > > Elisabeth Sherwood > Washington, DC > > > > > On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote: > > On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote: > > I keep trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I > think the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly > 'look up' bringing my neck out of line with my back. > > Oh yeah, I hear that. Google “Shermer’s Neck” and you’ll learn plenty. In > my experience, it is a combination of holding up the head _and_ holding up > the eyeballs. Because my eye movement muscles got so tired, I have for a > long time worked at keeping my head up, so I’m not rotating my eyes up to > look up the road. But that’s been stressing my head-holding-up muscles > more, and I’m having some trouble with the cervical-thoracic junction. > Bringing the tops of the bars up 2-5cm, to where they are level with the > saddle, and finding an in-between position where my head isn’t fully up and > my eyeballs are only slightly rotated up is working well. Also, I vary that > positioning during a ride to give all the muscles chances to rest a bit. > > I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” > effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my > ears. With a cm shorter stem and the higher bars, I also regularly think > about extending my head and neck, like a turtle, and pushing my elbows in > and shoulders down. Inevitably I find that if I’m riding at a relaxed pace, > putting less weight into my legs and core, I creep back into bad form and > have to consciously correct for it. > > I also haven’t been doing as much yoga as I was pre-COVID, and with that > my core strength has gone south a bit. I have been working on building some > foundational strength in the back, shoulders, and neck this year, and I > think that’s helping. > > > Ted Durant > Milwaukee, WI USA > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/375dbaa3-5894-441a-98c7-94481e5bf30an%40googlegroups.com.
