Form vs. function? I would say if my life depended on it, I would take the V-Brakes. In my experience, they have more leverage and are more powerful. I don't buy the "too much" is bad - it's a matter of learning how much braking you've got, and experimenting a bit to find out what to do with it. You have the same issue if the surface is slippery - a slight touch on less powerful brakes can wipe you out. Gotta learn to feel your brake control. It's like throttle control on a motor bike.
I guess we could also argue that all brakes are an eyesore (like the fixie crowd). Brian On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 9:42 PM, cm <[email protected]> wrote: > I would think cantis are much more powerful-- especially if they have > longer arms. One respected brake maker recommends against putting > their cantis on lighter weight frames as the stopping power can ruin > the frame. That is impressive. I'd like to see that. > > I see the +'s and -'s to both. In the end I prefer v-brakes if only > cuz cantis always seem so darn fickle. > > Cheers! > cm > > On Nov 30, 9:37 pm, Earl Grey <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have to agree with Jim Thill that V-brakes are more powerful than > > cantis, but I think that is one reason to *stay away* from them unless > > you do a lot of steep downhill single track, where hand-fatigue from > > braking can become a real issue. > > > > More power = less modulation, all other things being equal. One data > > point: My 100 lb ex-girlfriend was riding her V-brake non-suspension > > Cannondale mtn bike in the park, going slow on a slight down slope > > (10-12mph?) and casually reached for her brakes to slow down a bit. A > > second later she found herself on the pavement, having gone over the > > bars as the front brake had locked up. Her brakes were properly set > > up. A brake that is so powerful that it can lock up a wheel when you > > are simply trying to slow very gently is at least as dangerous as a > > brake that requires white knuckles to lock up the wheel. > > > > In addition to being driven by ease of set-up, reduced costs, and > > trying to convince people that what they bought two years ago isn't > > good enough anymore, too much bike innovation is developed for the > > lunatic road- or downhill-racing fringe, and may actually be a step in > > the wrong direction for transportation/smell the roses type cyclists. > > > > Just my 2 Thai Baht, > > > > Gernot > > > > On Nov 30, 11:58 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Making build-ups faster is certainly a consideration. But I disagree > > > that the refinements in bicycle and component design are not, in fact, > > > genuine improvements. Here's my take on how these examples represent > > > improvements for the end-user: > > > > > V-brakes: A lot of people seem to be saying that cantilevers have > > > stopping power that's comparable to that of v-brakes, provided that > > > the set-up is correct. This has never been my observation, as v-brakes > > > have always seemed much more powerful to me. I concede that I may not > > > know the secrets to canti set-up, though I have done it many, many > > > times, usually for money. For my own bikes, I was a canti-fan up until > > > the last year or so, and I used them all. Now I'm all about v-brakes. > > > > > outboard BB bearings: there's no point in considering these bearings > > > except as part of the modern crank/bb assembly. The outboard > > > positioning of the bearings allow for a larger bearing with the wider > > > spacing reducing the force on each bearing. This should represent > > > added stiffness and durability and perhaps reduced weight, which may > > > or may not be relevant to the end-user. Aside from that, the entire > > > assembly can be disassembled and serviced with an 5mm wrench and a > > > Park BBT-9 tool. These are much easier to use (and harder to screw up) > > > than a thread-in crank puller and the splined BB tool (plus big wrench > > > or ratchet) that is required for the older Shimano UN series square- > > > taper cartridge BBs. Consider chain suck. With the modern style of > > > crank, it is a simple matter to loosen the crank with a 5mm wrench to > > > extract the chain without further damaging the paint on the chainstay. > > > With square taper systems, I have had times where I would have been > > > stranded if I wasn't compulsive about carrying lots of tools, like a > > > crank puller and 8mm allen wrench, for example... > > > > > Threadless headsets: > > > Again, ease of adjustment with common tools is a big one for me. I've > > > had loosening threaded headsets on long rides...where did I put those > > > headset spanners again? I also much prefer a 9/8" threadless set-up > > > for the added stiffness when I have a heavy front load. I still use > > > bikes with threaded/quill arrangements because I have them and they're > > > fine for most of my riding, but if I'm buying a new bike, I consider > > > threadless to be a significant advantage. Aesthetically, I think both > > > are fine, but I came of age with bikes after threaded headsets and > > > clamp-on stems were commonplace. > > > > > compact frames: If the bike fits and rides well, then it doesn't > > > matter unless you're attached to a certain look as being "correct". I > > > have come to prefer traditional designs, because they make for a > > > bigger triangle to accommodate my 40oz water bottles, various frame > > > bags, etc. > > > > > I have often noticed that older bikes, say a 1970s/80s touring bike or > > > a 1950s 3-speed are more similar to modern bikes than they are > > > dissimilar. I could have a grand time riding a 50-year-old 3-speed > > > across the continent. Older equipment and older technologies work as > > > well now as they ever did. And if certain aesthetics or certain > > > nostalgic leanings are important to a cyclist, and the parts are still > > > available, there's no reason to not be "retro". But for those of us > > > who are mechanical geeks and get exposed to all the latest and > > > greatest, some of the older technologies, while they may be adequate, > > > seem rather archaic and cumbersome. > > > > > cyclotourist wrote: > > > > > Basically every "improvement" in bicycle components & design over the > > > last > > > two decades has been to make build ups faster. They may or may not > > > improve > > > things on the bike, usually neutral at best. Consider the following: > > > > > V-brakes: check > > > outboard BB bearings: check > > > threadless headsets: check > > > "compact" frames: check > > > > > All these are fine and good, and don't hurt anything, but are really > > > unnecessary. They let a factory put more bikes out and let the shops > > > assemble them faster (with less customer complaints). The problem is > > > that > > > they're marketed as "improvements" which they aren't for the end > > > user. And > > > they make perfectly good parts and designs outdated, which bugs most > > > of us > > > here. > > > > > My $.02 for the evening. > > > > > On Nov 29, 7:53 pm, cyclotourist <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Basically every "improvement" in bicycle components & design over the > last > > > > two decades has been to make build ups faster. They may or may not > improve > > > > things on the bike, usually neutral at best. Consider the following: > > > > > > V-brakes: check > > > > outboard BB bearings: check > > > > threadless headsets: check > > > > "compact" frames: check > > > > > > All these are fine and good, and don't hurt anything, but are really > > > > unnecessary. They let a factory put more bikes out and let the shops > > > > assemble them faster (with less customer complaints). The problem is > that > > > > they're marketed as "improvements" which they aren't for the end > user. And > > > > they make perfectly good parts and designs outdated, which bugs most > of us > > > > here. > > > > > > My $.02 for the evening. > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 1:46 PM, williwoods <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > I have to disagree with some of the statements. > > > > > > > V-brakes are just easier not to screw up during setup (fewer > > > > > adjustments, fewer things to setup wrong), thats really the only > major > > > > > advantage, there is a small leverage benefit but canti's have > better > > > > > modulation in general. > > > > > > > If you setup Canti's properly and run the right brake pads and > proper > > > > > short pull levers they will stop as well as any cable actuated rim > > > > > brake will maybe even as good as cable discs. I have bikes that run > > > > > Canti's that you can lock up the wheels with 1 finger. I have also > > > > > used V-brakes that sucked. > > > > > > > The trick is older Canti's can be a pain to setup right, Im talking > XT > > > > > cantilever brakes here or similar. Or really any kind that uses the > > > > > plain non-threaded post mount brake pads, except the 90's Avid > > > > > Cantilever brakes those are the best for setup ever. Most of it is > > > > > about geometry though. You have to have the Straddle cable setup > right > > > > > and then have to have the brake pads hitting the rim at 90 degrees > and > > > > > toed in, most of the poorly performing Canti brakes are not > adjusted > > > > > to the correct geometry. Proper setup of Canti Brakes is a bit of a > > > > > lost art these days. > > > > > > > Nowadays the Tektro CR720 Cantilever Brakes are just about as easy > to > > > > > setup as V brakes, mostly due to the fact that they use regular V- > > > > > brake style brake pads. The only thing more fiddly on these is > setting > > > > > up the straddle cable correctly. The Pauls would also be just as > easy > > > > > to setup right, or again any canti brake that uses the threaded V > > > > > brake brake pads. > > > > > > > anyway thats my 2 cents. > > > > > > > Will > > > > > > > On Nov 29, 12:05 pm, RoadieRyan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > +1 on V brakes with the Tektro road levers. I have them set up > with > > > > > > some Avid V brakes on my Handsome Devil. Overall I still prefer > > > > > > sidepulls for set up and adjustment but I like the V's over the > > > > > > Canti's. > > > > > > > > R > > > > > > > > On Nov 29, 12:07 am, Daniel M <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Can I also chime in in favor of V-brakes with Tektro levers? I > have > > > > > > > had my Hillborne since May built by Rivendell with Deore > V-brakes, > > > > > > > Noodle bars, and Tektro levers and interruptors. The braking > is > > > > > > > superb. Loaded touring with tent, sleeping bag, food, clothes, > etc, > > > > > > > coming down paved roads at 35mph, in the drops, and literally > only > > > > > > > needing ONE finger on each lever to moderate slowing/stopping > > > > > > > perfectly. I had a Bianchi Volpe with short-arm cantis and > needed to > > > > > > > apply so much pressure in similar situations that my hands > ached. > > > > > > > > > The long-arm cantis that Rivendell sells are doubtless much > better > > > > > > > than the ones that came on my Volpe, but V-brakes are so > powerful, so > > > > > > > simple, and so easy to adjust that I can't imagine using > anything > > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > DM > > > > > > > > > On Nov 24, 3:28 am, EricP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Another one who feels that the 113 BB length is good. > > > > > > > > > > Will chime in on the brakes - my SH presently has Tektro 720 > > > > > > > > cantilevers. The main winter project is switching it over to > V > > > > > > > > brakes. The cantis are not bad. But > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<rbw-owners-bunch%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
