I'd love to score a Bleriot, for completely shallow reasons: It's my favorite Riv name/graphics package. I don't know the story of them being pulled from the market, and didn't realize they disappeared quickly (I was in recumbent world the last three years).
About the mythical Legolas: I was at Rivendell a few years ago, cash in hand, staring at one in my size. I was *this* close to buying...and bailed out. They only made 80!? Oh my heart.. On Jun 15, 4:06 am, islaysteve <[email protected]> wrote: > Leslie, No offense taken by me at all! I understand what you're > saying about some people overpaying for nice-looking restored car, > while more knowledgable folks know that there is an upper limit to > reasonable prices for any given model. This may be similar to the > pricing on the Ram we are discussing, but of course the final sale > price will determine that (if we ever find out.) I'm also amazed by > the high asking prices for some older bikes on CL. It may seem > reasonable to the seller that if a $700 (when new) bike is like new, > it should be worth $400 now. They don't realize that the technology > has moved on so much in 10, 15 or 20 years, that their bike is pretty > much obsolete to most buyers. I guess the fixed-gear/single-speed > trend has been a boon to those selling older steel bikes. I'm just > glad that I bought my Bleriot when I did, for what I paid. Steve > > On Jun 14, 9:45 pm, Leslie <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 14, 7:08 am, islaysteve <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > In view of the other thread about the nice Rambo for sale on CList, I > > > thought I'd start a general discussion of used Riv prices. Just > > > because it's kind of interesting. Someone on the other thread implied > > > that it's not reasonable to compare the asking price of a used frame > > > to the price of a new frame, esp. if it's a different model. I > > > disagree. Long ago I had a job processing claims. The principles > > > apply, I argue. To use my own example, you can't buy a new Bleriot. > > > If you want a new Riv frame that's close to a Bleriot in geometry and > > > function, you buy a Sam. Back when they were sold, Bleriots cost $750 > > > (such a deal!). Today new Sams cost $1100 (?) or $1500, and that is a > > > whole other discussion in itself. In my size (small), they cost > > > $1500. So when I paid more than the original cost for my pristine > > > Bleriot frame/fork, was I foolish? I don't think so. Riv frames in > > > my size on the used market are not available all that often. So the > > > other part of this equation is depreciation: the word that insurance > > > companies love and claimants hate. I think you have to agree that > > > most things, Riv frames included, depreciate. If you'd rather have a > > > new frame out of the box from Walnut Creek than a used frame from Joe > > > on eBay, that's depreciation. If the used frame has some paint > > > chipping around the dropouts, that's.....you get the picture. We can > > > argue about how much to depreciate a Riv frame, or anything else. I > > > wouldn't depreciate it down to 25% after say 10 years, like some > > > claims payers might. So to wrap this up, my point is that it's > > > reasonable to look at the price of a comparable new frame (bike), > > > decide what kind of depreciation to apply to the used bike in > > > question, and go from there. And of course the buyers emotions and > > > wants play into this a good bit. I would have rather had an orange > > > Sam with Hillborne graphics than the blue Bleriot. But it just wasn't > > > worth nearly double the price to me. Cheers, Steve > > > I suppose I should reply here, as it might very well be me that was > > implying that it's not quite appropriate to do a direct price > > comparison between a discontinued used model and a new current model. > > > And, I should go ahead and say, anything I say isn't meant to offend, > > is simply my perspective, YMMV..... > > > I will agree, if you want to have insurance replace a bike with a very > > comparable brand/model, then sure, you can insure it for a declared > > amount to make sure that if stolen, you could go and replace it (ie, > > replace a Rambouillet with a Roadeo). That would be a $1600 frame, > > being replaced with a $2000 frame. > > > And, I love my Rambouillet, it's an awesome bike. I really would like > > to think that, it'd be reasonable to expect that an insurance company > > would replace it with a brand new Roadeo if anything ever happened to > > it. And if I had an Atlantis that was a year or two old, maybe it'd > > not be too unreasonable to argue with insurance that they could just > > buy a new one to replace it. > > > But, realistically, as soon as you drive a car off a lot, it's a used > > car. A few years later, once a company has replaced it with a new > > model, if I went to sell it, I wouldn't expect to set its price > > directly compared to a new car, I have to look at the price for which > > used ones of its same year are selling, regardless of the new model > > being the one that's most like it. > > > I had a Subaru, a month old, 2nd payment not-yet-made on it, and it > > was rear-ended. Shouldn't have been totaled, but, as it was a new > > model that had just came out, the parts weren't available to repair > > it, they were all going into making new ones, so insurance decided to > > total it out instead. And I couldn't even get them to do a > > replacement on it with another. It had less miles on it than some new > > cars that have been test-driven a lot, and they still wouldn't. > > > There is a lot of truth in that old statement, tho', that it's worth > > what someone will pay for it. I deal with old Land Rovers (have a '72 > > and a '60), and all the time, see people pricing them ridiculously > > high, thinking they're overly collectable. (Orvis had a nice > > 'restoration' done that was recently priced at $80k). And, often, > > someone with one to sell gets lucky: someone with disposable income > > sees one, catches a fancy, and can drop a lot of money on one. But > > the long and short of it is, it's an old Rover, even if nicely done, > > even if like new, shouldn't really ever go for more than $20k, and > > really, $10k is high for one in even pretty good daily driver > > condition. But, if someone's willing to $30k for one, who am I to > > say that it 'shouldn't' sell for that? > > > Bikes aren't cars. And, I understand that, perhaps, someone is willing > > to pay a premium because it's got a Joe Bell paintjob, because it's a > > great paint. But for me, if I was buying a used bike, the fact it > > has a JB paint job or not wouldn't influence me to want to offer more; > > IMO, that's something that was worth more to the original buyer who > > had it painted, but not the average buyer. Sure, maybe it happens to > > be a JB paintjob in the 'exact' custom color that you would repaint > > the frame in anyway, then you're actually saving money by not having > > to repaint it. But, maybe, someone who knows what a JB paintjob is, is > > probably a different kind of bicyclist, eh? > > > Maybe I'm too pessimistic. I usually think of myself as being overly > > optimistic, but, I really wouldn't see paying 'more' for a frame than > > what it originally cost. It'd be nice to think that I am wrong on > > that, maybe my Ram is worth more than what I think, but, I don't see > > it as an investment, it's simply a great ride. > > > As I said, not trying to step on toes, I'm not meaning to offend, but, > > that's my perspective.... FWIW.....- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
