Hi Niklas, Thanks for coming back to me. Happy to hear you healthy again! I've got some answers inline
Op di 4 nov 2025 om 13:24 schreef Niklas Lindström <[email protected]>: > On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 9:57 AM Miel Vander Sande > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi Niklas, > > Hi Miel, > > Sorry for the late reply (some health issues got in the way)! > > > What's the focus of the TRLD project? Just the algorithms or does it > extend to a JSON-LD parser too? Of is TRLD a library that can be used by a > JSON-LD library? > > The focus is to implement the JSON-LD algorithms verbatim, mainly > expansion, compaction and flattening, and to be able to transpile > these into other languages (currently Java and JS). Some algorithm > issues have cropped up by doing that. > > It has since been extended to do some extras, including automatic > framing of "object-only" linked blank nodes, and indexing by @id > and/or @type, TriG and N-quads parsing and serializing, and a > vocabulary mapper (based on RDFS and OWL). In some way, it functions > as a low-level RDF library, with the internal JSON-LD data model as an > "abstract syntax tree". > I think those are maybe not a priority, they are definitely great assets for developers, so it's good to at least try to incorporate the ideas. > > Library-wise, I have not stabilized the processor API, and it is still > at a semantic 0.x version, so I do not generally advocate it as > API-stable. I do use it daily, mainly through its `trld` CLI [1], but > also in some other tools, importing most things from trld.api [2] (I > think peeking into those can give a generally good glimpse of how to > use this in other tooling). The Java-transpiled code is also used in > the library system I work with on a daily basis, mainly for speedy > output of RDF (Turtle/Trig) for indexing and conneg, but in the recent > years also for mapping and compaction. > > I have not deeply compared the PyLD implementation "step by step", so > I cannot fully say how TRLD differs, but I think I've heard that PyLD > isn't always 1:1 with the spec steps (which doesn't necessarily matter > if the same output is achieved). That said, TRLD also optimizes some > things in the context processing (to avoid reprocessing); something > that *might* be valuable to factor out in the specs as well (unless a > note about optimization is more appropriate). > Yeah I think these observations are correct. TRLD seems more technologically sound, but PyLD has a lower entry-barrier (code structure, documentation, comments), at least for me. Since my time and that of the few contributors is limited, I need to be pragmatic about this and start from PyLD. > > I think PyLD maintenance being picked up by the RDFLib community is > very promising, and I'll think about what the best long-term strategy > is for avoiding duplicate work or fragmentation. Having multiple > implementations is hopefully healthy, but it also risks someone > "betting" on eventually unmaintained code. There are also differing > ideals, such as minimal components cooperating using stable API:s, vs. > efficiency through deeper integration. I will think more about this > too. > That would be great and we'll look at parts of PyLD that can possibly be replaced with ideas and implementations from TRLD. There's (among others) the question of what internal RDF representation rdflib, PyLD and TRLD use and to what extent that makes them compatible. > > (The best I've hitherto been able to do is to publish this as 0BSD to > make it clear that copying chunks of any parts of the code, e.g. into > PyLD, is fully OK, without any licensing issues AFAICS, nor > attribution required (though still appreciated). This implementation > was made by looking at the spec, not other implementations. The TriG > parser and serializer are mainly made "the hacker way" by throwing > data at them until tests pass. I'm sure others, and maybe some LLMs, > have or will eventually do that much better.) > Thanks that is very much appreciate it. As far as I am concerned, attribution is a given for both you and digitalbazaar. But I would have to check the current practice in rdflib about that. Cheers, Miel > > All the best, > Niklas > > [1]: <https://github.com/niklasl/trld/blob/main/trld/cli.py> > [2]: <https://github.com/niklasl/trld/blob/main/trld/api.py> > > PS. One of my more ambitious goals with the transpiler was initially > to generate the spec algorithms in pseudo-code (perhaps INFRA...). It > "should" be simpler than the other real languages, but I have not > dedicated much time on that yet. > > > > > @Nicholas Car should the parser/serialiser hook into > https://github.com/RDFLib/rdflib/blob/main/rdflib/parser.py and > https://github.com/RDFLib/rdflib/blob/main/rdflib/serializer.py? > > > > Best, > > > > Miel > > > > Op do 9 okt 2025 om 12:16 schreef Niklas Lindström <[email protected] > >: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I'm also still active with TRLD [1], which from the start strives to be > true to the letter with the JSON-LD 1.1 API spec algorithms; i.e. > expansion, compaction, flattening, to and from RDF. (For reasons (e.g. > separating querying and serialization), it lacks full framing support; but > it has a simple means of framing blank nodes.) > >> > >> (Like PyLD it's independent of RDFLib. It also comes with a TriG > parser/serializer and some extras; including transpilation of its > implementation into Java and JS. I'm also working on aligning it with > compliant RDF 1.2 support (as part of the upcoming work on JSON-LD 1.2 and > 1.3).) > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Niklas > >> > >> [1]: <https://github.com/niklasl/trld> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 9:16 AM Nicholas Car <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear RDFLib Developers, > >>> > >>> JSON-LD support within RDFLib is now at a critical stage: we have > essentially no activity on the other Python JSON-LD package, pyLD, and > ever-increasing demands on RDFLib to support all the various JSON-LD modes > and related JSON functions like framing. Also, some members of the JSON-LD > community that might have helped here are no longer in the domain, > including one prominent one who recently passed away. > >>> > >>> Are any of you able to contribute to the push for an RDFLib v8 that we > are currently undertaking that might include an enhance handing of JSON-LD? > >>> > >>> Thanks, Nick > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://github.com/RDFLib > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "rdflib-dev" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > >>> To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rdflib-dev/TLSx2qBWUsjMom8z1mWM8AmK2-qbj4dVxIB7SSwQeovehN07OzIiq6DRzyTC0KwRTUFaAALI0-20vYp9bOoE7zUKppseXs631_dNnShigT8%3D%40kurrawong.ai > . > >> > >> -- > >> http://github.com/RDFLib > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "rdflib-dev" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > >> To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rdflib-dev/CADjV5jf8t0SOks_sQS36RNHSOdMm_%3DbBL54oLuUq0XU2CbP0sg%40mail.gmail.com > . > > > > -- > > http://github.com/RDFLib > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "rdflib-dev" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rdflib-dev/CAHeRLWuij2WACxAeXm4H9JLj40abSTX7eqPZxj%2B%3D-C6C9q-gkg%40mail.gmail.com > . > > -- > http://github.com/RDFLib > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "rdflib-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rdflib-dev/CADjV5jdd2rByX%2BMDkxAdy%2B-YZx1WrDA1jUmNE3iJR2R1T1ez0A%40mail.gmail.com > . > -- http://github.com/RDFLib --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rdflib-dev" group. 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