Dave and others building your own tanks
There are a number of companies that reline industrial tanks with these
materials.
For many years, actually since '79, I used Poly tanks from Chem-tainer, but
found there rigidity limiting. I like lots of storage for my preferred large
tank drainback, and too often found myself removing and replacing door
frames to gain access to storage tank locations.
I was aware of a previous product--from Maine I think-- that used a rigid
foam, outer tension band covering and flexible liner, that was taken off the
market after failures.So I have been very cautious about how these tanks are
implemented. For this reason, so as not to see unnecessary learning
experiences that might cause negative reactions to flexible liner tanks, I
prefer to work with wrenches collaboratively, as I have done with Travis, to
refine the product. For a successful tank in the long run, the liner
material is only part of the system. The shape of the tank--cylindrical, and
how that cylinder is created-- the heat exchanger details--based on vertical
SS submerged tanks-- the outer tension band , penetration and sensor
details, etc all need to be correct.
How will you be building the basic tank? This is the detail that first got
my attention when Travis mentioned to use of ICF's, which caused me to post
on this list some cautions about temperature limits when using EPS foam for
the tank shape and insulation.
Take Care--no need to reinvent the wheel
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
Hello Ken,
Can I get information from you on the PVC material you are using for
lining
your tanks? Where to buy it etc.
I need to be making a decision and buying liner material within the next
week, or two.
Thanks,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Schaal
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:47 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
For the last 5 years or so we have produced our own tanks, from 150 gal
to
4000, so far. We provided an 800 gal tank for Travis, and his shop tank
built with ICF's left over from the shop construction,used the same
fabricated liner.
We use industrial quality, flexible PVC that is fabricated to fit the
cylindrical form of the tank. The material, when used in typical varying
temperature applications such as solar/wood systems, with maximum temps
under 180, will have a useful life of 15-25+ years. The hotter the storage
the more the material will become rigid. That alone will not necessarily
mean leaks, as the wall of the tank has very low expansion/contraction
rate.
The other key to longevity is that we use vertical Stainless Steel tank[s]
for heat exchange to DHW. Since these tanks have rounded ends, they can
sit
on the bottom of the larger outer tank-- with the flexible liner-- and not
stress the liner material. Other needed copper coil HE's can be supported
from the DHW tank and piping.
They are completely knock down to 4' wide, 4-6" thick sides that ship flat
but can be formed to a cylinder, with bottom and top rigid foam
insulation.
Combined with the flexible, and therefore shipped folded flat liner, the
components can be carried thru any doorway or access that a person can get
thru. Even the 4000 gal tank was built that way.
We have considered putting these on the market, and would be interested in
wrenches experiences and needs, and any other input.
We have had no failures, leaks, etc in over 5 years of experience.
Ken Schaal
CommonWealth Solar,LLC
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
Ken,
Appear to be leaking from where heat exchangers contact bottom.
I do not know the specific tank temps as these were not my tanks, or
customers tanks.
No, sidewall penetrations.
What tank lining material have you worked with? And how have they been
holding up?
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken
Schaal
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:27 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
Dave and others-
Where and how do these leaks occur?
Stress at points of contact with bottom of copper coils?
Deterioration of the EPDM over time? at what average and maximum temps?
Sidewall penetrations below water level?
Other issues?
Thanks
Ken Schaal
CommonWealth Solar
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot Water Tanks
We have experience with STSS tank's. Lot's of Tarm's installed around
here
in the past 10 years with that tank. Too many of the tanks leak after 8
to
10 years. That's why we decided to make our own tank.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeff
Blick
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 95
Hiya Dave,
We installed an STSS tank at a very large thermal system in Colorado
this
past winter. Check out their website, excellent product. If nothing
else
this will give you a jumping off point in your research efforts. The
website is stsscoinc.com. Good to hear from you the other day...talk to
you
soon.......
Jeff Blick
PV installer
Sunlight Solar Inc.
4 NW Franklin
Bend, OR 97701
direct: 541-306-4196
fax: 541-322-1911
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.sunlightsolar.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 95
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Hot water tank liner recommendations? (David Palumbo)
2. Re: Hot water tank liner recommendations? (Aaron Wellendorf)
3. Sunny Boy 6000U (marco)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:25:53 -0400
From: "David Palumbo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot water tank liner recommendations?
To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Wrenches,
Does anyone have a recommendation for a waterproof material to line a
950
gallon hot water storage tank? This insulated storage tank will have
heat
exchange coils from a wood fired Tarm boiler as well as from SHW
collectors.
The liner must be able to withstand temperatures of 180 degrees F.
We have had recommendations that include EDPM roofing membrane, and pond
liner material http://www.firestonesp.com/pondgard.asp?sub=b1a and
http://www.firestonebpe.com/lining/tech_data/tech_guidelines/_down/_en/T
and
http://www.firestonebpe.com/lining/tech_data/tech_guidelines/_down/_en/T
Also, there is a concern that these tank liners have leaked in the past
because the bottom of the tank liner was eventually penetrated due to
poor
protection from the stress of having the copper heat exchanger coils
sitting
on it. I'm wondering if closed cell blue(or pink) board insulation would
be
a good choice for this duty. Will it hold up over the years at temps up
to
180F? As an alternative we could mill up some local Hemlock wood to
separate
the coils from the liner. Hemlock has been used for years to build
spring
boxes out of, the reputation being "that as long as the wood stays wet
it
will last for decades".
And, is there a water treatment product that we should add to the
storage
tank that will help protect the liner from breaking down over the years?
Thanks for your time,
Dave Palumbo
Independent Power LLC
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:28:06 -0700
From: "Aaron Wellendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot water tank liner recommendations?
To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would ask that you contact Stephen Rhoades at Burke Industries: (800)
669-7010 x406, www.burkeind.com. Burke Industries is manufacturer of
Hypalon, one of the best single ply membrane roofing products. The same
(or similar) products are used for reservoir liners, pond liners,
waterproofing underground homes, etc. If you need to set something on
the membrane such as a heat exchanger coil, then have a pre-made walkpad
heat welded under the area of the coil. The walkpads are several times
thicker than the membrane itself and are made for rough service areas.
Stephen really helped me a lot on one of my large commercial projects.
Aaron Wellendorf
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:53:30 -1000
From: "marco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Boy 6000U
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Amigos y amigas,
I'm looking for a new or simply working old-style SMA SB 6000U. Might
anyone have one they'd be willing sell me? If so, please contact me
off-list.
thanks,
marco
Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
Electrical Contractor License C-26351
69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
(808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
------------------------------
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