I am curious, as a somewhat green off-grid installer, are those of you having such bad luck w/ the AGS/MATE using a GSCM, such as the Atkinson products? Or just relying on the OB relay and two wire start gennies? I seem to be having better luck than others thus far (knock on wood) w/ our off-grid installs that use the AGS function. Just wondering if one method is better or not. Cheers, Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer Eco Solar, Inc. Klamath Falls, OR 97601 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Freitas Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:48 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generartor Auto-Start Issues Season's Greetings - We have been having severe weather in the NW since last week and we elected to close OutBack today due to the snowy roads. I am actually traveling but will check for messages for the remainder of the holiday break. Fell free to email me directly if you have any tech support questions that require immediate response. I am glad to see that this discussion of automatic generator start issues include the experience about having the customer being completely reliant on the system operating completely unattended. I think doing this is asking for trouble. The auto generator start systems built into all of the inverter systems should be viewed as a convenience device - not as a comprehensive "bullet-proof system" which will operate 100% of the time. A complete generator management system can be installed which will provide that level of reliable operation - but it would require much more complexity and cost - I think most people would not be willing to pay for the cost and maintenance required to ensure 100% reliability. I have been involved with trouble-shooting probably well over 100 generator auto-start systems over the years - and I have always been amazed at the level of complexity that can occur. Often the inverter system is viewed as the "problem" when the real problem turns out to be something else. Seldom has the generator selected been designed for such a critical application or has it been properly maintained. Often the relays used in the system are not the right type - people often use cadmium-oxide contacts when dry circuit rated gold contact relays are required. Many times the generator can't handle the low temperatures and start reliably. Or the quality of the fuel is poor from long term storage, etc.. If the customer expects 100% reliability - a redundant stand alone auto-start system should be installed as a backup - and the system really should include a second generator - and many additional protective circuits such as excessive run timers and of course "murphy switches" (low oil / over temp shutdown system). The system should be designed to alert the system operator of an error and fail in a operational mode - i.e. running the generator until the system can be operated manually or repaired. This will result in excessive fuel usage unfortunately. OutBack has built up a well trained customer service group which assists homeowners and installers with generator start system every day. The majority of the time the reason for the problem is figured out - but there are times where problems can be very difficult to determine - especially if they are intermittent or not repeatable. Since we are not able to be on-site we are only able to certain things to assist with trouble shooting the system. We often provide replacement parts "just in case" they are the problem. and more often then not it doesn't solve the problem because the real issue is somewhere else. As with any complex system - there are always "surprises" that occur - we have updated the software in the MATE a number of times to address unusual circumstances and unexpected combinations of events. We upgrade the software at no charge and always advise using the latest available MATE software when trouble-shooting and auto generator start problems. Happy Solstice and a New Solar Year! Christopher Christopher Freitas Director of Research and Development OutBack Power Systems, Inc. <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] Tel 360 435 6030 Cell 360 202 4239 19009 62nd Ave NE Arlington WA 98223 USA <http://www.outbackpower.com/> www.outbackpower.com MESSAGE CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, is confidential, and may also be protected by attorney-client or other privilege. If you believe that it has been sent to you in error, please do not read it. If you are not the intended recipient,you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete it. Thank you.
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