I should point out that my experience with poor support tech support came early in the XW product cycle. Nonetheless, they had a big introductory splash at Solar 2007, with a “Seminar” with CE credits and hardware. Clearly not enough product knowledge was downloaded to the tech support staff AND there was a operating glitch with our particular set of parameters that took 6 months of pleading on my part and a threat of legal action on the owner’s part to resolve.
- Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [email protected] Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:51 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem Friends: This is really interesting. I have had many problems technical, managerial and in terms of reliability with Fronius. Others claim stellar performance. I have installed 3 XW systems and they are all working very well, yet many of you have had what appears to be major problems with the XW. I have no problem reaching Xantrex tech support using the new number and I get good advice. (I did have one problem that I thought was due to XW based problems, but it turned out to be a balky generator.) I will say that the 3 XW system is not ready for prime time due to space limitations in the PDP, but there are work arounds (contact me off list). When I needed Xantrex to assist me with the AHJ, Mark Edmunds of Xantrex was prompt and helpful in this regard. Go figure... William Miller At 07:46 PM 9/20/2009, [email protected] wrote: After swearing off brand X I did a XW system this last spring. The customer needed two AC inputs and unfortunately the GVFX topology still only has one. On the single occasion I called Xantrex to ask how to raise the sell (grid support) voltage the "tech support" person told me to do what I already had done and hadn't worked. When I asked for other suggestions he said he had none. The issue is still unresolved. I was unimpressed and expect far better from tech support then this. Todd On Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:09pm, "Drake Chamberlin" <[email protected]> said: Hi Peter, Do you need the extra fan? The VFX has an internal fan. Are there a lot of heavy loads that push the limits of the Outback? If not, take out the fan or swap it for a cover with no fan. Many VFX inverters didn't come with cover fans. I don't know if they are standard now, or not. Or, have the fan go on whenever the direct grid tie inverter is being called on to charge batteries instead of feed the grid. If loads are not real heavy, battery charging, by back feeding the AC Out, may be the time when the fan is needed the most. Before inverters started controlling generators, we used a device called the Simple Switch, which was a voltage controlled contact. (We'd use it with a GenWiz). I'm not sure what is out there these days. You could use the Atkinson GSCM, generator start module, which senses the voltage. If you need this solution, I'd call AEE. Thanks for the heads up on the Xantrex. I just heard another horror story about the Xantrex 6024 system. According to the installer, the owner shut off an AC switch and the array cooked a bank of Surrette 25CS 25 PS batteries. I don't know the new Xantrex line and don't understand how this could happen. Is this really possible? -Drake At 06:43 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote: Hi Drake (and everyone else interested in this thread), Armed with the information from my esteemed colleagues, we went ahead and purchased a SunWise “Solar Ready-Grid Tie Battery Systemâ€, a SRB3.6 to be exact. The heart of the system is a GVFX3648. I ordered it without the Charge controller and purchased a SB3000 and 3150 Wdc of PV to go with it. I also purchased a Grainger 2P2T relay with a 12 V coil in a NC configuration (to disconnect the SB when the batteries are fully charged in off-grid mode) and an Outback PSX-240 to transform the 240 Vac to 120 Vac (in order to interface with the GVFX3648. When we looked into hooking the relay up to the AUX-OUT of the GVFX3648, we discovered that it was already dedicated to the fan… So it looks like we will need to put somethiing together to sense the battery voltage and energize the relay coil, when we exceed the threshold. Any recommendations for a add-on HVD? And exactly what threshold voltage should we use for 8ea 6V 305 Ah (C/24) AGM batteries? And for Drake: I gravitated away from Xantrex because of a very unsatisfactory experience with a XW6048. The system failed to work properly and Xantrex “hemmed and hawed†for over six months. Bottom line: we made six service calls, two firmware upgrades and probably two dozen calls to largely clueless group tech supporters. Through it all, I lost the customer’s confidence and he chose another integrator to do a follow on commercial project. The last part of course was the worst part of the experience. - Peter Hi Peter, The Outback inverter will not regulate battery charge while AC coupled. The SMA is the only system designed to give a regulated charge to batteries in the AC coupled mode. The Outback auxiliary relay can be used to drive a relay that will disconnect the input to the inverter, to regulate battery charge when grid is down. I like an "Ice Cube Rely" (such as Idec) to control a contactor. The coil of the Idec uses very little power. Why did you gravitate toward Xantrex from Outback? Drake At 09:25 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote: I would like to start a thread on AC-coupled grid tied battery backup systems. We do a fair number of GTBBSs (four to five a year) and I have gravitated from the Outback solution to the Xantrex XW solution. I am not happy with the XW product and especially not happy with Xantrexs post sales technical support. I know I have more to learn about these puppies in general, so I am genuinely disappointed with the uneven TS from Xantrex. I also had this nagging feeling that the heart of a GTBBS should be the tried and true high voltage inverter. Enter the SunPower positive ground requirement, and now an AC coupled system seems the best solution. >From the white paper that Outback sent me, there was no mention of a heavy >duty relay. Doesnt the Outback inverter regulate the battery charge control? Has anyone tried to order a SunWize Solar Ready Battery Assemblywithout the charge controller (e.g. P/N SRB3.6). It would seem that this is a nice package for small energy needs (13 to 26 kWh of battery backup). - Peter [] Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [email protected] Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 _____ From: [email protected] [ mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:55 PM To: [email protected]; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW6048 parts problem Jeff: I have a spare. They are not kept in the socket but are loose in a bag. Send me your mailing address off list. I leave tomorrow for a week, so I hope I see your address before I go. William At 04:59 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote: Just completed a large residential grid/gen/solar/battery system using a XW6048 inverter. We are using a SunnyBoy inverter at the array and doing an AC coupled backfeed. To do this we have installed a heavy duty relay in the output of the SunnyBoy, and are using the aux. relay contacts on the XW unit to close this relay when battery voltage is at high limit (during no load power outage to prevent over-charging) Not sure if we lost it during installation, if it shook loose in shipment and fell out, or was missing to begin with, but to connect to the aux. contacts in th XW requires a very small green flat 5-pin connector which is missing. I contacted multiple people at Xantrex and their service center, waded through their web site, and finally talked to a service tech. He advised that "he was looking for an extra one of these connectors 6 months ago and still has not received it, as these compoments are made and assembled in China and they do not stock anything that is considered an assembly part used in China to build their units." First, I did not realize these inverters were being assembled in China, and second, who ever heard of not stocking a replacement part just because its made in China. If that were true, 95% of everything sold today in US would not be able to order replacement parts. Anybody out their know if there is a Radio Shack type supplier where I can order a bag of these and get on with the system startup and my life? Thanks, Jeff Yago
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