Mr. Truitt,
You are obviously a talented installer, but please allow me to comment
on your point number 2.
The clip acts something like a mini-rivet and will still be connected
when the clamp is loosened. You will have to yank the clip off and
possibly damage it, which is why they are recommended for one-time use.
A tin-plated lug will last, but it is the attachment to an anodized
aluminum frame that may not. Many are installed with a stainless steel
thread forming screw. The original installer might have carelessly
stripped the threads or screwed it in multiple times so that the
connection was not that good to start with. We have also seen that in a
high salt environment the formed thread is a place for corrosion to
begin and over time, the screw hole can corrode until the lug falls off!
I would recommend the safest practice is to assume that there will not
be a ground when you remove any module.
Best Regards,
Brian Wiley
Wiley Electronics LLC
845.247.6163
www.we-llc.com
On 9/14/2010 1:31 AM, Andrew Truitt wrote:
2 points:
1) For the sake of clarity: there are WEEB LUGS
<http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/204-0404-000003.pdf> and WEEB CLIPS
<http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/204-0404-000007.pdf>. WEEB Lugs are
comprised of very robust tin-plated copper lugs, stainless steel
hardware, and the actual WEEB, which is the stainless steel nippled
"washer" that pierces aluminum anodization. WEEB Clips are simply
stainless steal nippled washers that are installed between module and
rail that form a bond, theoretically eliminating the need to bond the
module to a ground wire, so long as the rails are properly grounded.
2) My biggest concern with the WEEB Clip is that the moment a
top-clamp is loosened the module is no longer grounded!!! To me that
is not a good grounding method. Mr Wiley is obviously a talented
inventor and he makes a strong argument for the quality of the bond
that the WEEB Clip provides when the clip is installed properly and
all mounting hardware is properly torqued. What I don't understand is
the argument that this is as safe of a product as a properly installed
outdoor rated lug for the service tech who has to work on that array.
A tin-plated copper lug with a stainless steel set screw will last. A
service tech working on a faulted array that was grounded with WEEB
Clips might not.
Andrew Truitt
Free agent
Golden, CO.
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:04 PM, benn kilburn <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hopefully any crew installing PV, and familiar with this debate
(which they should be) can easily distinguish between the GBL-4
and the GBL-4DBT. The weight difference is quite noticeable. If
it feels light for its size, it's aluminum, dont use it!!! If it
has some distinct weight to it, then it's most likely the copper
DBT, giv'er!
So what other non-conductive materials are out there that could
help resolve this frame bonding issue?
Sunteck's BIPV SolarBlend module uses a polycarbonate frame
which requires no bonding. Do any of you have any experiences
with these? How were they to handle, install? Do they offer any
hope or support for non-metallic module frames?
benn
DayStar Renewable Energy Inc.
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
780-906-7807
HAVE A SUNNY DAY
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:14:36 -0600
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
I didn't do the original install, and I couldn't ID the lug
because of the corrosion.
I believe everyone is correct that this isn't the DBT rated lug,
though.
Another reason to use the WEEB: a crew can't accidentally install
the wrong (but almost identical, when new) lug.
I'm sure the non-DBT lugs got mixed together in a bin at some point.
R. Walters
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Solar Engineer
On Sep 12, 2010, at 5:41 PM, Jamie Johnson wrote:
That looks like a tin plated aluminum lug (aluminum
corrosion) with a plated steel screw (rusted screw).......
Here is an explanation of the differences between both ILSCO
GBL 4 lugs from John Wiles Code Corner in Homepower issue 102
"The Ilsco GBL-4DBT is a lay-in lug
made of solid copper, which is then tin-plated. It has a
stainless steel screw to hold the wire. The lug accepts a #14
(2 mm2) to #4 (21 mm2) copper conductor. It is listed for
direct burial (DB) and outdoor use and can be attached to
aluminum structures (the tin plate). The much cheaper Ilsco
GBL-4 lug looks identical, but is tin-plated aluminum, has
a plated screw, and is not listed for outdoor use."
Jamie Johnson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118
General Manager
SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC
EC13001765
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
From: "Peter Parrish" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Sun, September 12, 2010 6:50 pm
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Are you sure that's a ILSCO GBL-4DBT lug? I am pretty sure
the set screw is
not SS, which it should be to be the genuine part.
- Peter
Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of R Ray
Walters
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 3:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of WEEB
A picture is worth a thousand words, (hopefully this will
upload)
Here's a traditional Ilsco Lug after less than 5 years
near the ocean:
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