My approach isn't scientific, but my own common-sense attempt to balance competing objectives, as William has identified. I more-or-less address this in the current HP batteries article. To me, insulating a battery box does little good in an otherwise cold ambient environment. Batteries don't generate enough heat from the charging process to overcome cold ambient (especially winter outdoor in our cold climate) temperatures. I'd rather see the battery box located in a tempered space. Indoors is good, but not necessary. Indoors is unlikely to get and stay above about 75 degrees for long enough (in our climate) to allow massive batteries to rise above their stated ideal of 77F. But a separate tempered space - that is, an insulated space that adheres to good basic passive solar guidelines: glazing for warmth, overhangs for summer, mass (floor or trombe wall) for storage - is nearly ideal. The batteries have their own substantial thermal mass, so average seasonal ambient temperatures of 50-75F are pretty close to ideal. With enough mass in the larger space, the venting necessary to exhaust hydrogen doesn't have much effect. I'll use a 12V Power Vent or two, each controlled by an MX60/FM60/similar Vent Fan option on the auxiliary. These combine a voltage-actuated switch function with hysteresis and intermittent fan operation, so not much heat is lost.

But hey, that's ideal, and means that I have some control of the entire building process. That's a rare and quite yummy occurrence. But it makes a great ideal to explain to the customer; then we do the best we can with what situation and budget will allow.

Here we're more concerned about cold winter temperatures than summer overheating. I have historically taken the position that locating batteries indoors is a good thing, as long as the box is very carefully sealed and vented. I'm big on Zephyr Power Vents, especially because when correctly vertically mounted, they have a built-in backdraft damper, essential in an indoor space with a wood stove or similar. So far, in twenty years I haven't yet had an accident or close call that resulted from locating batteries indoors.

Hope that this helps a bit,
Allan

Allan Sindelar
Allan@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com


On 12/11/2010 4:45 PM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:

I'm a little addled because of a flu.  Allow me to resend the post below with a more sensible wording:

I'm not sure how you insulate a space and at the same time vent it.  Any insulation is pointless if you have a draft flowing through the area.

If you are to insulate, then you must have an active venting system that can open and commence venting promptly and reliably at the first possibility of hydrogen gas emission.

Being from a temperate climate, this has not ben an issue for me, but for those of you in more extreme climates, how do you handle this conundrum?  Electric blowers with louvers?

William Miller


At 02:10 PM 12/11/2010, you wrote:
At 08:25 -0800 11/12/10, Joel  Davidson wrote:
I recommend insulation. In general, operating temperature is very important. Batteries last longer if kept cool. However, a battery below 60 degrees F (15.5 C) has reduced capacity. Temperatures above 77 F (25 C) increase capacity only slightly but they significantly reduce battery life. Batteries operating regularly above 85 F (29.4 C) lose have their operating life.
Joel Davidson

OK so you recommend insulation to keep them cool?  For me, insulation is more likely to result in higher temperatures in summer.  In winter, an insulated space is obviously ideal for performance depending on the kind of winter (which seems to be a variable these days).  In summer, insulation directly on the battery seems unlikely to keep them cool.  On charge they will definitely need a temperature sensor and will be likely to get hotter than ambient if insulated.


-- 
Hugh Piggott
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