OK, since WHEN is a cat killing a bird a "problem"? LMAO. Larry
On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:16 AM, Chris Daum wrote: Hi folks: I don't mean to be the devil's advocate here, but my birder friend would like me to share the following info (from Chris at Oasis Montana) Yes, Bob is correct in that turbines are safer for birds now than they were 30 years ago, however, his cavalier attitude toward his cats and windows killing them (when he could be doing something about that -- just google preventing bird window strikes and making a predator safer yard -- disturbs me, and causes me to think that he is being arrogant in his wind turbine/bird strike data). Audubon is very aware of cats and windows killing birds and they are working on those problems, as they are working on safer wind farms. Modern turbines may be safer for birds, but they are not safe if placed in the wrong place. While Audubon does support wind turbines in general, they have a lot of qualifications. In addition, the Kevin Rim wind farm in Montana has a lot of bird and bat lovers concerned. The European company building that project has made some changes in location designs, but not enough yet. Audubon does not inequitably state that they support wind farms. Audubon says in part that it is a lesser evil to have turbines as apposed to raising global warming while using other energy sources: Protecting Birds and Wildlife: While Audubon strongly supports wind power and recognizes it will not be without some impact, production and transmission facilities must be planned, sited and operated in concert with other actions needed to minimize and mitigate their impacts on birds and other wildlife populations. Several federal and state laws require this and the long-term sustainability of the wind industry depends on it. Wind power facilities impact birds from direct collisions with turbines and related facilities, such as power lines. Wind power facilities can also degrade or destroy habitat, cause disturbance and displacement, and disrupt important ecological links. These impacts can be avoided or significantly reduced, however, with proper siting, operation and mitigation. Audubon supports the adoption of federal and state guidelines on the study, siting, operation and mitigation of wind power. Guidelines should provide developers, permitting agencies and conservation groups with the legal, technical and practical steps needed to minimize impacts on birds and other wildlife. Guidelines should provide the following essential elements: · Minimum pre-permitting study requirements and guidance on study methods, frequency and acceptable data sources to ensure that wind power is sited in appropriate locations · Clearly delineated siting criteria that designate areas where wind power should not be allowed, such as Important Bird Areas, major migratory corridors, wilderness areas, national parks, wildlife refuges, and other sensitive habitat such as wetlands and riparian corridors · Clearly defined monitoring and mitigation requirements in permits, with periodic reviews and requirements for adaptive management if impacts significantly exceed levels allowed by permit · Guidance on cumulative population impacts assessment and mitigation. Audubon also encourages wind developers and permitting agencies to consult with wildlife experts, including Audubon staff and local chapters, to help inform study and siting decisions. And, concerns for the Kevin Rim project are not just about the large number of nesting hawks, but new data on bat mortality is interesting and alarming: http://mtaudubon.org/issues/energy/documents/Wind%20_10-08_JEllis.pdf Most of what Bob says is true, but he needs to do some further research on some of his statements. Dorinda Troutman Hamilton MT 59840 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Solarguy Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:30 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wind Turbines killing birds and bats By some estimates, outdoor cats in the United States kill more than 1 million birds every day on average. Other studies suggest the death toll is as high as 1 billion per year. http://blog.nwf.org/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/ Jim Duncan Drake, There is nothing to it that is documented and recent. There were some problems years ago (20 – 30) due to tower design and poor placement. The towers are a different design and it was never a serious issue in any case. Years ago the towers were a freestanding design with many places to perch and look for game to pick off for lunch. Rotor diameter is also considerably larger and slower now. Something like 20 rpm vs. 200 rpm. I have watched black birds chase a hawk through the sweeping rotor for 10 -15 minutes, no problems. It might have been the hawk leading the black birds through the rotor. Either way it was fun and fascinating to watch! I think I videotaped it but it was years ago and I have no idea where it might be. My house windows, cat and car get MANY more birds than my turbine ever has. The cat and car do fairly well, when birds fly into the windows it is loud and not good for the birds at all. I have never found a dead bird under any of the turbines that I service. I did find a dead bird in its nest that was inside a nacelle once, it was uninjured and just dead, no sign that it was damaged at all. There is all kinds of misleading stuff like those links out there, it’s just not accurate and done by the anti wind folks. Hope this helps, Bob Ellison Hi Drake, I was doing some research for this and have it in my computer somewhere. But while there are bird deaths, most are from the older style ( very low and using guy wires). Also to keep it in perspective, the numbers killed by buildings is 10,000's of times greaterand guyed towers are also much more of a problem. To add further, the national Audubon society is OK with wind machines for the last number of years. jay peltz power From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 6:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wind Turbines killing birds and bats Hello Wrenches, A very knowledgeable friend has concern about wind turbines killing birds and bats, and sent me these links. From previous posts on this list and information I've heard elsewhere, I thought this really wasn't much of an issue, more of a red herring by those who are opposed to wind energy. http://www.batsandwind.org/pdf/baerwald%20et%20al%20current%20biology%202008.pdf http://coalicionventanasverraco.org/files/horn_et_al_2008.pdf http://www.batsandwind.org/main.asp?page=research&sub=operational http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090928095347.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/collisions/pdf/wind_rulemaking_petition.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_wind_power How much of an issue is this really? Can we put the danger into perspective? Does this kill more bats and birds than the pollution it displaces? Thanks, Drake Drake Chamberlin ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC OH License 44810 CO license 3773 NABCEP Certified PV _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
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