With all this talk of anti-seize in an email thread with "SnapNrack" as the
subject line, I just wanted to add another comment which is that we have for
several years now shipped all SnapNrack hardware with a wax coating. This
significantly reduces issues with hardware galling even when anti-seize is not
used at all. The coating process on the black hardware seems to even further
reduce galling. We still recommend application of anti-seize as a "best
practice" but I suspect that 90% (or more) of installs go in without any and
feedback from customers on hardware galling has gone down dramatically since we
rolled this in. Perhaps we should promote it more -
Greg
Greg McPheetersSenior Engineering Manager, SnapNrack
From: Ray Walters <[email protected]>
To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get messy.
Also on the torque issue, I found just using the T handle hex wrench from the
manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should be, and even a
gorilla can't over torque it too far.
Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no over
torque issues. With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl, which is
almost as fast as using a power tool.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Kurt,
Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid
stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the
bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the
threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal.
Allan
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div.yiv1944238807WordSection1 {}--> Allan Sindelar
[email protected]
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell
On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote:
Esteemed Wrenches,
Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than
squeeze tube anti-seize?
My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put
in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any
failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps
avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford.
Kurt Johnsen
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters <[email protected]> wrote:
Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps,
also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware.
We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for
lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing.
Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage
but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the
modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
Chris,
It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding "tooth" dug through the
aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to
break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was
way over-torqued.
You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the
racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days,
Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are
some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs....
Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb
Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb
JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb
These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame.
I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening
torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion.
We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as
'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the
next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you
have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few
minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid
clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the
mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until
it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts
were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about
34 ft-lb.
Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless
impact drivers.
At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as
we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque.
(i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self
"re-calibrated" often.
Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire
Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F:
888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps
with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp
points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to module
through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass
on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so
as it was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the
module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are
any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the
same damage? Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com
[email protected] From: RE-wrenches
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack That decision was based on our
distribution network offering better pricing on Unirac, and engineers being
comfortable with it. Now with the integrated grounding from Unirac, I can't see
moving away from it again barring a significant cost benefit. It also stacks
and stocks easier than the Ironridge rails.
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Dana Brandt
<[email protected]> wrote: Hi Jason, We've used Unirac for years but
have been contemplating Ironridge. I'm curious what your experience was and
why you went back to Unirac?
Anyone else have input on best racking systems for flush-mounted residential
systems on comp roof? Thanks,
Dana
Dana Brandt
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC
www.ecotechenergy.com
[email protected]
360.318.7646 On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jason Szumlanski
<[email protected]> wrote: By Snap N Rack, you mean Sun Run...
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/05/sunrun-acquires-rec-solars-residential-business-aee-solar-snapnrack-means/
I'm curious if these vertical integrators will still make their
acquired brands available to small dealers through distribution. When
SolarCity snatched up Zep, I had concerns about being able to service or add
onto existing Zep systems we installed. That's definitely a concern going
forward, and reason to perhaps stick with the most compatible racking
solutions available. We used IronRidge for a while, which is largely
compatible with Unirac, but now we're back on the Unirac bandwagon.
Interesting times... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On
Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Max Balchowsky <[email protected]> wrote: We
have been using Snap N' Rack for a while, Have lots of installs in Hawaii -
so far no problems, I like the convenience of the design for snapping in the
slider nut in mid rail, and also the ability to install the panels flush with
the end of the rails…. Max Balchowsky
Design Engineer
SEE Systems
1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
760-403-6810 "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
From: Allen Frishman <[email protected]>
To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack I am curious about the mid
clamps on the snapnrack. The flange that rests on top of the solar panel
frame is so small ~ 3/16". Anyone experience any problems with these
failing in a big storm? With solar panel frames not being square it is nice
to have a little extra to grab - I am always curious as to why these clips are
made with such a small area to hold the panels down. All feedback on
these clips is appreciated. Al Frishman
AeonSolar (917) 699-6641 - cell
(888) 460-2867
www.aeonsolar.com On Jun 1, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Max Balchowsky wrote:
Have installed last three systems (35Kw)with snap n rack. love it....
Max Balchowsky
Design Engineer
SEE Systems
1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217
Newport Beach, Ca. 92660
760-403-6810 "Building a Better Future For The Next Generation"
From: Solarguy <[email protected]>
To: 'RE-wrenches' <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack The only complaint with the
Snapnrack rails is the thin wall can easily be distorted. This will allow the
nut to drop out of its groove. Love the universal end clamps but have learned
to assemble every one to check for proper fit before getting on the roof.
Jim Duncan -----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 7:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack Hello Wrenches, How would you
rate the SnapNrack mounting systems against Unirac and other mounting
systems? Thanks, Drake
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