You can get some pretty exotic polymers if you want to go that route. I've used Kynar before in strongly oxidizing environments; although, I've never used it with a PV install. <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
On a related note, does anyone have any experience with Dura-Con or similar products? That might be an alternative to plastic washers. Thanks, Gordon > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 07:14:48 -0800 > From: Jay <[email protected]> > To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Jason, > > It's part of why I asked because I'm not sure the best material. > I always thought of Epdm as pretty soft? > > If you have a supplier let us know > > Jay > > > On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of > plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed > by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option > for longevity. > > > > ?Jason? > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ok here is the long form. > >> > >> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal > issues. > >> It is a custom racking design to fit his house. > >> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering > for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners > >> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific. > >> This is his 2nd ( more?) house. > >> > >> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said > including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness. > >> > >> I am going to do it for him. > >> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's > looking for. > >> > >> Jay > >> > >> Peltz power. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Jay, > >>> > >>> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being > relied on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that > you followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the > hook. > >>> > >>> Kurt > >>> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems > >>> > >>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> Jay > >>>> > >>>> Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a > high probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a > new set of issues. > >>>> > >>>> Peter > >>>> American Solar > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: Conrad Geyser > >>>> To: RE-wrenches > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers > >>>> > >>>> Jay, > >>>> > >>>> I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do > have a reaction. But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless > fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with > anodized aluminum. Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic > washers. > >>>> > >>>> Conrad > >>>> Cotuit Solar > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Conrad Geyser, Principal > >>>> Cotuit Solar LLC > >>>> 508-428-8442 > >>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Another engineer, eh? > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis > fans, I mean PV installations, can't be wrong. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my > favorite line. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Jason Szumlanski > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> Hi all > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers > between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where > to buy? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jay > >>>>>> Peltz power. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >>>>>> > >>>>>> List Address: [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: > >>>>>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >>>>>> > >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: > >>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Check out or update participant bios: > >>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >>>>> > >>>>> List Address: [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: > >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>>> > >>>>> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >>>>> > >>>>> List rules & etiquette: > >>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>>>> > >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: > >>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >>>> > >>>> List Address: [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: > >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>> > >>>> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >>>> > >>>> List rules & etiquette: > >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>>> > >>>> Check out or update participant bios: > >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >>>> > >>>> List Address: [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: > >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>> > >>>> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >>>> > >>>> List rules & etiquette: > >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>>> > >>>> Check out or update participant bios: > >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >>> > >>> List Address: [email protected] > >>> > >>> Change listserver email address & settings: > >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>> > >>> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >>> > >>> List rules & etiquette: > >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>> > >>> Check out or update participant bios: > >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> List Address: [email protected] > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: [email protected] > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160128/ccb47911/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:15:59 -0700 > From: Ray Walters <[email protected]> > To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket. We use > them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof > flashings. > Image result for neoprene washers > https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers > > Thanks, > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote: > > Hi Larry > > > > I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just > > between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the > > al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and > > certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to > > each module. > > > > As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt. > > But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it! > > > > I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. > > Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers > > > > Thanks > > > > Jay > > Peltz power > > > > On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > >> Hey Jay, > >> > >> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate > >> the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both > >> are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential > >> (different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high > >> voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike. > >> > >> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate > >> the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the > >> holes? Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well. > >> > >> Larry Crutcher > >> Starlight Solar Power Systems > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay <[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> Ok here is the long form. > >> > >> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal > >> issues. > >> It is a custom racking design to fit his house. > >> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering > >> for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners > >> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific. > >> This is his 2nd ( more?) house. > >> > >> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said > >> including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness. > >> > >> I am going to do it for him. > >> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's > >> looking for. > >> > >> Jay > >> > >> Peltz power. > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > >> > >> List Address: [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > >> Change listserver email address & settings: > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> > >> List-Archive: > >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > >> > >> List rules & etiquette: > >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > >> > >> Check out or update participant bios: > >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: [email protected] > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160128/d2091d65/attachment-0001.htm > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: images > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 3920 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160128/d2091d65/attachment-0001.jpeg > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 10:19:21 -0800 > From: jay <[email protected]> > To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene. > > One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they > don?t compress so you do get a ridged structure. > > jay > > peltz power > > On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket. We use > them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof > flashings. > > <images.jpeg> > > https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers < > https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers> > > > > Thanks, > > R.Ray Walters > > CTO, Solarray, Inc > > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > > Licensed Master Electrician > > Solar Design Engineer > > 303 505-8760 > > On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote: > >> Hi Larry > >> > >> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just > between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al > rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not > worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each module. > >> > >> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt. > >> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it! > >> > >> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. > >> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Jay > >> Peltz power > >> > >> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems < <mailto: > [email protected]>[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >>> Hey Jay, > >>> > >>> I?m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the > module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are > grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different > length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the > array in event of a near lightning strike. > >>> > >>> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate > the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes? > Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well. > >>> > >>> Larry Crutcher > >>> Starlight Solar Power Systems > >>> > >>> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20160128/f71fda67/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 9, Issue 33 > ****************************************** >
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