Hey Ray, I completely agree with you. I had an inspector in CO that was know in the early days of solar among the manufacturers as that SOB in CO.
I finally called his supervisor after several failed meetings where I felt fairly sure that I was interpreting on the side of safety and the code. His supervisor agreed with me & I got a call from the inspector asking why I called his boss & why couldn’t we have discussed this? I replied that I had tried. We had a completely positive relationship after that call. It turns out his home life was hell, he had a drinking problem, and his teenage daughter was pregnant. He turned a corner after that and a few years later retired. He is a happier man today. People can change, and it is one of the hardest things we all endure. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 [email protected] Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 <http://www.solarwork.biz> www.solarwork.biz "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ray Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 1:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff I've dealt with tough inspectors in many jurisdictions. I seem to spend 50% of my time doing education. I do not just take the AHJs word as gospel and blindly follow. I meet with them, sit down with the code and we work it out. I am not afraid to question or protest a decision. After a few years, the inspectors know I'm not trying to get away with sub standard work, and that we all want the installation to be done right. -Ray On 4/20/18 12:38 PM, cwarfel wrote: It's just not Idaho. I was just asked about NEC PV interpretation for a large city on the East coast. Same problem. Narrowly (and incorrectly) interpreting the grounding requirements. It's probably nervous inspectors who feel their neck is on the line, and are interpreting defensively thinking that is the safest thing for them to do. We have taught a lot of Code officials and they really feel exposed when it comes to PV. The key to me is just taking time, if the Building Official has it, to go over the NEC sections and their relevance. It has to be made understandable and easy. These people are suppose to approve everything from house wiring to appliances to pools, to anything that requires a permit. It is just too much for almost everyone to understand completely. Look at all the questions we have with 690 and 705 alone Chris. On 4/20/2018 1:28 PM, Dana wrote: Reasonable inspector, here? You have no idea. The plans examiner is the first link in the process here in Idaho, he is; by the book, crossing t’s & dotting I’s and has a very strict & narrow interpretation of the code. That said he is very helpful and a nice guy. It’s an Idaho thing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: RE-wrenches <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of cwarfel Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 9:23 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff I just got back from being out of the office for a week+ and just read a few of these. I hope this is not redundant. 6AWG is the size that meets several tests for exposed installations. By that I mean that it is not protected. If you are running the array EGC exposed, you would use at least 6AWG depending upon the size of the overcurrent protection device towards the charge controller/array disconnect. 250.120(C) and T250.122. We have run into the conductor covering rating problem too. #4 can be color coded so you can use black conductor. A reasonable inspector should allow this for 6 since a lot of the non black coverings are not holding up as well to sunlight as black. I think NEC2017 takes this into consideration and allows you to color code because of the superior performance of black coverings. Chris On 4/20/2018 9:00 AM, Dana wrote: That makes two of us that would like to understand, why #6? I think it dates to early grounding with grid tie systems. I remember back to 20+ years ago when the code required that the EGC was the size of the largest conductor which with 24 volt inverters was OOOO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:57 PM To: RE-wrenches <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff Dana, I understand the need to use #6 in exposed places on the earth. I have had inspectors require the same wire size that is used to the battery. I have had them require the same size as the array wiring. I have never seen them do what they are doing to you so thanks for the info.... Be well! --Dave The bare #8 is an EGC for #10 USE PV wire on the tracker to the array mounted combiner box. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz <http://www.solarwork.biz> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" ï Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Hilton Dier Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:39 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff Would #8 meet code? I thought that exposed ground wire had to be #6 minimum. Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Missisquoi River Hydro LLC _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist .html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist .html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> text 209 813 0060 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> -- Christopher Warfel, PE ENTECH Engineering, Inc. 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