And thank you Steve for reminding folks of all those nasty effects of outgassing hydrogen..I figured someone would, necessarily. These are sealed AGM, which I realize is not a guarantee of no hydrogen , but certainly not a constant hazzard. ALSO.. .these are large spaces...full length of house crawl and frequently used garage. I tend to worry a bit more about my own bank of 4 250 AH ea. AGM, in a battery box of fiber cement board, under the inverter...no choice. In my case tho, it's in a 12' sq.basement , 6 steps down from the sunroom, and there is no door. So plenty of ventilation. ... What kinds of problems have wrenches had with AGM failure leading to significant outgassing? ? My Deka batteries are about 8 years old and are losing capacity, so looking to replace at some point....there have been a couple events over those years when they got a good workout, but not to the point of abuse. Generator when needed, 3.4 kw pv array, good sun. Thanks, ken
On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:57 PM Steve Higgins <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Wrenches... > > Since Ken brought it up.... > > Inverters are the most common of the ignition sources, with loose > connections being a close second... Inside each inverter/charger is a > transfer relay, this relay when it transfers to or from grid will spark. > This sparking action can cause Hydrogen gas to ignite. > > If there is over 1% by volume of hydrogen gas in the room, cubby or where > ever this is installed the relay arching can cause the hydrogen to ignite. > > This will flame out, much like lighting gunpowder, or gasoline fumes. > The flame will follow the hydrogen back to the source (The battery) and > once it gets inside the battery it will find compression, as the hydrogen > ignites inside the battery that compression can/will cause the battery top > to blow off... > > Here are some examples of what it looks like when you have a hydrogen > Ignition... > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing > . > > The number one way to prevent this is to put enough air flow thru the room > to remove the hydrogen gas before it can ignite. > > Also Hydrogen gas is very corrosive... I still don't know why people > install inverter/charge controller right above battery banks, I've seen > charge controllers installed right above the battery bank that any > non-conformal coated connection was corroded due to hydrogen gasses. > > I've found that it's always best to enclose any battery bank in some box > and at the highest point in the box put in a fan to remove the hydrogen > from the box when the battery voltage gets above 2.25vpc/13.4v/26.8v/54v. > > This is a pretty good article on calculating gassing from a battery bank. > > > http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html > > > > > > > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager > t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 > f +1.902.597.8447 e [email protected] > <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery> > <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > ------------------------------ > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > ------------------------------ > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 9:18 AM Ken Schaal <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I have a set of AGM's installed near the inverter, on a roll out dolly, >> under the landing, up 5 steps from the garage to the 1st fl.. >> Another set of AGM's in a 4-5' crawl space. Was a bit of a tussle last >> year to replace those four, but then I was 72 with achy knees. 8 ' from >> access door to batteries. White, reinforced vapor barrier closed crawl >> space. No ignition source like water heater. >> >> Inverter mounted high on wall adjoining batteries. >> SCP in kitchen for info. >> Ken Schaal >> Commonwealthsolar.com >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 10:21 AM Chris Schaefer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Jerry, >>> >>> Attached is a picture of a battery box made out of red oak that houses a >>> set of twelve Surrette Rolls 4ks25 underneath the clients stair landing. >>> The inverter system is just off to the left and is in the "game" room. Thus >>> the client wanted the battery box to resemble a piece of fine furniture. >>> Well we accomplished that but the client is over 6 foot and we both >>> always grumble when having to service these. While code is critical just >>> imagine when you're in your 50's and 60's and still having to service >>> these. Never again, LOL! >>> >>> Christopher Schaefer >>> >>> Chris Schaefer’s >>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> >>> >>> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >>> *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com/> ~ E-mail: [email protected] >>> <[email protected]>* >>> >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:19 AM, frenergy <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Jerry, >>>> >>>> I serviced a system that (who became my) customer installed >>>> just like that. To me, it doesn't really matter what the NEC thinks about >>>> it. It was great because it showed me what I would *never* duplicate >>>> in my repertoire of installs. >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On 7/28/2018 5:10 PM, Jerry Caldwell wrote: >>>> >>>> Wrenches, >>>> >>>> I have a customer who wants to have batteries installed in a 4' tall >>>> crawl space / short basement. Are there any accessibility code issues with >>>> installing batteries in a crawl space? Does the NEC address this? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jerry Caldwell >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & >>>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Feather River Solar Electric >>>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>>> 4291 Nelson St. >>>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>>> 530.284.7849 >>>> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> >>>> Virus-free. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> >>>> <#m_5694868012574544696_m_1083934589469718641_m_6716287820509096766_m_4175795908426477908_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Chris Schaefer’s >>> <http:www.solarandwindfx.com> >>> >>> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 * >>> *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com >>> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com> ~ E-mail: [email protected] >>> <[email protected]>* >>> >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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