Someone previously at AEE tried to get NEMA involved in setting a standard, but it turned out that they were not getting cooperation from the mfg, so could not proceed.
Brad On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:28 PM Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com> wrote: > Yes, I have seen and have copies of many of these 3rd party > “compatibility” tests. > > > > *From:* Brian Mehalic [mailto:br...@solarenergy.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM > *To:* Bryan Norkunas > *Cc:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch > > > > You say you've seen many of these tests in the past; do you specifically > mean the intermatability test? > > > > Thanks for the info! (And you also really helped me out identifying some > connectors on a problem-job a couple months back...thanks again!). > > > > Brian Mehalic > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 > > National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member > > (520) 204-6639 > > > > Solar Energy International > http://www.solarenergy.org > > > > SEI Professional Services > > http://www.seisolarpros.com > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM Bryan Norkunas <br...@pv-cables.com> > wrote: > > Also note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of these in the past – > > but never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG connectors, it has always > been 14AWG for some reason. > > > > And as a company that specializes in this niche, I can say in the last 10 > years we have never had the request to manufacture anything smaller than > 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors. > > > > *Bryan Norkunas* > > br...@pv-cables.com > > > > [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140] > > *PV-Cables Inc.* > > 1155 Redway Drive > > PO Box 2562 > > Redway, CA 95560 > > (707) 923-3000 office > > www.pv-cables.com > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On > Behalf Of *Bryan Norkunas > *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:57 PM > *To:* 'RE-wrenches' > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector m[image: Description: Description: > cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470]ismatch > > > > Ray, > > > > Solarworld went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal KSK4 connectors, > then Amphenol H4, and finally Amphenol UTX connectors. > > > > The cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the most issues and we > assembled a lot of adapters for end users and installers. > > > > Back in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about the Amphenol UTX/H4 to > MC4 connections failing. (I attached the Compatibility letter that > Solarworld was providing their customers, as well as the Amphenol > Compatibility documents ) > > > > Back then, I was mating connectors and grinding away the plastic housings > to determine the terminal overlap of cross mated connectors. > > Here are my notes from back then: > > The overlap on an MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305” > > The overlap on an MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265” > > A lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end users not fully seating MC4 > female to the H4 male. It takes some force to get them to fit completely > and a nightmare to disconnect if needed. > > These tended to fail in higher heat or higher humidity environments. The > picture below is one that wasn’t fully seated. > > [image: cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320] > > > > > > Hanwa Q Cell have used many different connectors on their modules over the > years. > > > > Jinko modules usually have Jinko connectors in my small amount of > experience with them. Jinko still does not offer a crimping tool for their > connectors, that I know of and still only UL for 20A. We do little work > with these connectors, so my input here might be outdated. > > > > Lastly, I have seen a few larger distributing customers of ours doing good > work on obtaining the connector/module info from module manufactures, prior > to placing their blanket orders. In turn, the module mfg.’s are typically > supplying them (or sometimes us) connectors for homerun cables, adapters, > etc. And finally the end customer is knowing what connectors on the > modules they are purchasing, with the availability of getting the correct > connectors/homerun cables needed to complete the install. > > > > > > *Bryan Norkunas* > > br...@pv-cables.com > > > > [image: Description: Description: PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140] > > *PV-Cables Inc.* > > 1155 Redway Drive > > PO Box 2562 > > Redway, CA 95560 > > (707) 923-3000 office > > www.pv-cables.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Ray > *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2019 12:08 PM > *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch > > > > I did some research on the modules we've used over the past 15+ years to > see if we had potential mismatched connector issues. We've used Amphenol H4 > connects since the advent of locking solar connectors. We had assumed they > were compatible back then. > > Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere back 2013 to 2015. I didn't > even notice. SW 280s through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and back > to the long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but its not that clear, as I found a > spec sheet for an SW 260 with an H4. > > *Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.* > > Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run the MC 4 or MC 4 > compatible (whatever that means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use > the H4/ UTX > > *Conclusion: Total confusion in the field.* > > Jinko? They don't even list the connector type on any of the spec sheets > I have for the past few years. > > *Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer to know beforehand what > connector to use in the field.* > > Basically this is a total break down of responsibility for the solar > industry; a complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an organization like > NEMA stepped in to standardize the connectors like all AC connectors have > been, going back for over a century? > > I made a very wrong assumption that when our industry adopted the MC 4/ H4 > locking type connectors that they were standardized and compatible. I can > only hope that my systems running at relatively low voltage (<150 vdc) will > not have issues. > > > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > 303 505-8760 > > On 9/4/19 4:26 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > > Just to add, l had a lab and l did testing on connectors, we found that > most of the aec issues were under low light. This appeared to be when > iradiance was low and once the irads went up the issue was less likely, > this was because the Male-female contact was not tight enough and under > lower power it would arc instead of heating up and expanding. I used a IR > Camera but could see little change due to the plastic. > > Then l used an IV curve tester and shaded partially shaded the module > after several repeat testing the connectors got warm. I would suggest > making your own connector pull out tool to check the contact pressures. > This is where you may find your problem components. It appears that early > am testing had lower volts and the inverter pushed the current up and > causes the loose connector to fail due to the lower volts. > > This testing was done both in the field 1/2 meg and lab testing results > were very close. > > The modules used for testing were Trina and the field inverters were ABB > and Fronius > > Sorry for the long note > > Jerry > > > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 2:52 PM Steven Lawrence <lawrenceste...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Everyone, > > > > Just to add to this, I've seen multiple melted connectors that couldn't be > traced to anything other than mixing manufacturers. I've seen some > connectors where you can clearly seeing arcing on the pin itself and > nowhere else. The crimps and the housing were fine. I've postulated it > had to do with slightly different metals expanding/contracting at different > rates. I've made it a very hard rule at my company to never mix > manufacturers of connectors. When we order modules, we specifically have > the PO call out the manufacturer of the connector (can't just be "MC4 > compatible"). Typically we order that same brand of connectors, but > sometimes we end up getting 6" jumpers made by a harness company (there are > some connectors out there that can only work with #12 wire. Can't use them > on #10 homeruns). It's drastically cut down on the number of melted > connectors. We've averaged maybe 1 or 2 on 6MW projects over a year with > this hard requirement versus 100+ we had on a 1MW rooftop project that > mixed multiple manufacturers. > > > > Steven Lawrence > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out or update participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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