Hi Kent, Johns diversion load/controller would take have to take care of watts and ac voltage parameters.
Jay > On Mar 4, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Kent Osterberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > If using an ac battery charger to get power around the inverter to the > batteries it would have to be rated for the full power of the PV array. > Otherwise, you couldn't divert the full power of the array on the dc side. > For a 24-volt battery, it would require a battery charger rated for over 80 > amps. That alone seems risky with a 100Ah battery. To add to the difficulty > of this approach the battery charger would add a delay time in the control > loop that would almost certainly result in an unstable system. > > Kent Osterberg > > >> On 3/3/2020 7:53 PM, Jay wrote: >> Or a charger such as Iota, or power max. >> >> Jay >> Peltz power. >> >>> On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:24 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>> You wrote that you would connect the Exeltech to just one of the service >>> phases. >>> But most GT inverters are 240 and require both phases. Is yours different? >>> You did not mention which model it is. >>> Also, as Kent Osterberg mentioned, the Exeltech will not charge its >>> batteries from the AC output. >>> Your scheme with the PLC controlling an SCR leaves unaddressed how any >>> charge current gets directed into the batteries to allegedly raise their >>> voltage. Is there a charger somewhere in this scheme? >>> You still need some way to charge batteries from solar. How about >>> connecting a charge controller to some of the solar panels? >>> >>> Don Barch >>> Energy Solar >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 13, Issue 59 >>> From: [email protected] >>> Date: Sun, March 01, 2020 2:19 pm >>> To: [email protected] >>> >>> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." >>> >>> >>> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: >>> line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the >>> quoted message. >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Mark Frye) >>> 2. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (frenergy) >>> 3. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Kent Osterberg) >>> 4. Re: OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... (Jerry Shafer) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 15:27:32 -0800 >>> From: Mark Frye <[email protected]> >>> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>> >>> I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house. >>> >>> Suppose I: >>> >>> - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid >>> >>> - I open the PV breaker >>> >>> - I connect a small good quality inverter like an Exeltech XP 500 to one >>> of the phases of the service (120 VAC) >>> >>> - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on the inverter >>> >>> OK so far, I could run some small loads for a relatively short period of >>> time before the batteries get low >>> >>> -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On the input I measure the >>> battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The SCR controls a 2kw >>> immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water. The PLC has a scan >>> time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty cycle of the SCR as >>> voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC. >>> >>> OK so far nothing has really changed from above. >>> >>> - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the battery inverter, >>> sync and connect after five minutes. >>> >>> Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my existing GT PV with >>> the balance of energy dumped as needed to the immersion heater. >>> >>> Right? >>> >>> Mark Frye >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 06:26:27 -0800 >>> From: frenergy <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> ??? ??? ??? OR, you change-out your inverter to an SMA with Secure >>> Power Supply and during grid power outage, while there is some sun on >>> the panels, you would have up to 2KW of 120VAC power on the SPS circuit >>> by just flipping a switch. We usually install a 4X outdoor box with a >>> 120 VAC outlet ganged with a switch right under the inverter and let the >>> customer run the power to the : frig, lights, battery charger, TV or >>> whatever during an outage, though some romex could be run to close to >>> the frig. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar Electric >>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>> 4291 Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> 530.284.7849 >>> CA Lic 874049 >>> www.frenergy.net >>> >>> On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote: >>> > I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house. >>> > >>> > Suppose I: >>> > >>> > - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid >>> > >>> > - I open the PV breaker >>> > >>> > - I connect a small good quality inverter like an Exeltech XP 500 to >>> > one of the phases of the service (120 VAC) >>> > >>> > - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on the inverter >>> > >>> > OK so far, I could run some small loads for a relatively short period >>> > of time before the batteries get low >>> > >>> > -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On the input I measure >>> > the battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The SCR controls a >>> > 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water. The PLC has a >>> > scan time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty cycle of the >>> > SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC. >>> > >>> > OK so far nothing has really changed from above. >>> > >>> > - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the battery inverter, >>> > sync and connect after five minutes. >>> > >>> > Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my existing GT PV with >>> > the balance of energy dumped as needed to the immersion heater. >>> > >>> > Right? >>> > >>> > Mark Frye >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> > >>> > List Address: [email protected] >>> > >>> > Change listserver email address & settings: >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > List-Archive: >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> > >>> > List rules & etiquette: >>> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> > >>> > Check out or update participant bios: >>> > www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > >>> -- >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 08:58:45 -0800 >>> From: Kent Osterberg <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> I believe that your plan would fail because you are forcing power to >>> flow through the XP inverter backwards to charge the batteries. I don't >>> believe the XP inverter can do that. The grid tied inverter would >>> probably connect then immediately shut down, or connect and immediately >>> ruin the XP inverter. It would work if you had a inverter with a >>> bidirectional architecture like a Magnum, Outback, or Schneider >>> inverter. But even then you'd have a hazardous situation because the >>> cooling water is going to evaporate. >>> >>> Kent Osterberg >>> Blue Mountain Solar >>> >>> >>> On 2/29/2020 3:27 PM, Mark Frye wrote: >>> > I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house. >>> > >>> > Suppose I: >>> > >>> > - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid >>> > >>> > - I open the PV breaker >>> > >>> > - I connect a small good quality inverter like an Exeltech XP 500 to >>> > one of the phases of the service (120 VAC) >>> > >>> > - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on the inverter >>> > >>> > OK so far, I could run some small loads for a relatively short period >>> > of time before the batteries get low >>> > >>> > -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On the input I measure >>> > the battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The SCR controls a >>> > 2kw immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water. The PLC has a >>> > scan time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty cycle of the >>> > SCR as voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC. >>> > >>> > OK so far nothing has really changed from above. >>> > >>> > - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the battery inverter, >>> > sync and connect after five minutes. >>> > >>> > Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my existing GT PV with >>> > the balance of energy dumped as needed to the immersion heater. >>> > >>> > Right? >>> > >>> > Mark Frye >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> > >>> > List Address: [email protected] >>> > >>> > Change listserver email address & settings: >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > List-Archive: >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> > >>> > List rules & etiquette: >>> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> > >>> > Check out or update participant bios: >>> > www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 07:31:36 -1000 >>> From: Jerry Shafer <[email protected]> >>> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OK, so what iwould happen if I do this... >>> Message-ID: >>> <camufgmvybnmmzge__tjds9xpfsou59jdf3wwskfhjw291vg...@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>> >>> Mark >>> What you are saying is to AC couple but most likely this would fail as your >>> battery fills not enough loads HBCO or to much loads and your battery does >>> a LBCO, either way you would be better off spending the money in a maybe a >>> Outback Skybox easy install and is high voltage PV input and even a small >>> 48 volt bank but think about storage >>> Jerry >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 1:27 PM Mark Frye <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > I have 2kw of grid tied PV on my house. >>> > >>> > Suppose I: >>> > >>> > - Open the main breaker to disconnect from the grid >>> > >>> > - I open the PV breaker >>> > >>> > - I connect a small good quality inverter like an Exeltech XP 500 to one >>> > of the phases of the service (120 VAC) >>> > >>> > - I put a small battery pack, 100 AH at 24 VDC on the inverter >>> > >>> > OK so far, I could run some small loads for a relatively short period of >>> > time before the batteries get low >>> > >>> > -I have a PLC with an AD input and DA output. On the input I measure the >>> > battery voltage, on the output I control a SCR. The SCR controls a 2kw >>> > immersion heater sitting in a big bucket of water. The PLC has a scan >>> > time of 2 mS and I program it to increase the duty cycle of the SCR as >>> > voltage of the battery rises above 24 VDC. >>> > >>> > OK so far nothing has really changed from above. >>> > >>> > - I close the PV breaker, the GT inverters see the battery inverter, >>> > sync and connect after five minutes. >>> > >>> > Voila, I can run house loads from 0 to 2kw with my existing GT PV with >>> > the balance of energy dumped as needed to the immersion heater. >>> > >>> > Right? >>> > >>> > Mark Frye >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> > >>> > List Address: [email protected] >>> > >>> > Change listserver email address & settings: >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > List-Archive: >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> > >>> > List rules & etiquette: >>> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> > >>> > Check out or update participant bios: >>> > www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200301/a993182d/attachment-0001.html> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 13, Issue 59 >>> ******************************************* >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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