William, Jeremy, I have been using Quickmount QMSE-Lag flashings for years. They have the raised seal that does not rely on an EPDM bushing. It's more expensive than most other flashings, but I figure this small added cost is definitely worth the peace of mind. Cheers, Dave
On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 1:11 AM William Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > Jeremy: > > > > It is amazing how we all exist in parallel universes. We have had > IDENTICAL experiences with leak claims and handled them EXACTLY as you > did: We meet with the roofer of choice and dissect the patient as a team. > Our policy is: If we caused the leak, we pay for everything. If we did > not cause the leak, we pay for nothing. > > > > In almost 40 years of solar contracting we have caused exactly one leak. > I intend to keep it to that number. We have to take roofing issues > seriously and not let the manufacturer’s bean counters dictate how we do > what we know how to do. The new hardware is crap, in my opinion. > > > > Rant off… > > > > You bring up three important points: > > > > 1. Flashings are essential. > > 2. Valleys need to have a gap between shingles or tiles and kept clear > of debris. > > 3. Rain water can and will travel sideways. > > > > Thank you so much for bringing up this scenario. It is a huge reality > check for those of us that poke holes in roofs for a living. Our liability > exposure is huge. > > > > What will we be using? I don’t know. Snap-N-Rack has been marginalizing > their product line for a while now, so I guess I am shopping for a new > direction. It’s a shame because I have a big inventory of SNR parts and > pieces. I am as keen as you are to learn where to turn for racking. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Jeremy Coxon > *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 3:48 PM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Trend away from roof flashings??? > > > > William you and I think a lot alike. I had a job today where “the owner > was told by a roofing company that those solar panels are making my roof > leak”. This was on an 11 yr old install over new shingles. We used > flashings and added flashing stock anywhere that was close to a shingle > seam (just like always). So instead of fighting the battle we scheduled to > show up at the same time as the roofer (one of the top 2 roofers in town > and the same company that laid the roof 11yrs ago). Did the leak checks, > ID’d the location, lifted panels and let them go to town. Turns out that > the leak was 3’ away from any of our penetrations and the leak was at a > shingle nail. The cause according to the roofers (lead guy and manager) > was water running sideways from the adjacent gap between shingles. Their > comment-“we see this all the time on these 3D shingles on roofs that don’t > have solar panels”. Apparently, “if leaves build up or ice dams up then > water shoots sideways and after a while the nail holes leak”. Their > warranty -2 years! So, there ya go. Crisis averted, solar not the > culprit. But can you imagine how that would have turned out if we had NOT > used flashings? > > > > We will not be using unflashed attachments. Besides, what happens when > the new guy misses the rafter or what happens when the rafter spacing > changes (we see that a LOT)? Sealed L feet are a huge step backwards IMO. > > > > The problem now though is the flashings that I know work (SnapNRack old > style) are no longer available. It seems that all the new ones rely on a > cone with EPDM seal and washered lags for sealing. Hence the initial > reason for this post- what are you guys using? > > > > Jeremy Coxon NABCEP > > Certified MWBE > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Apr 22, 2021, at 2:57 PM, William Miller <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Jeremy: > > > > Good question. I am with you in that I prefer that my pitched-roof > rain-proofing relies on gravity. This is the concept invented by the first > roof thatcher and followed ever since as roofing technology progressed. > > > > When I spotted this regressive trend my first question was: What happens > when the rafter connection you need falls under a seam in the roofing > shingles? This problem alone is a deal killer. I am sure lesser > installers will attempt to fill the seam with caulk. > > > > Adding to my discomfort is the reality that chemical solutions are not > nearly as reliable as gravity. Even the best caulk degrades with time, > temperature and UV. Roofing materials crack and become brittle and > powdery. Applying the new technology is iffy with a new comp roof and > crazy on roofs a year or more old. > > > > We will not be using the new flashingless attachments on comp roofs. > > > > William > > > > Miller Solar > > 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 > > 805-438-5600 > > www.millersolar.com > > CA Lic. 773985 > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Jeremy Coxon > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:40 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Trend away from roof flashings??? > > > > I’m interested in what the group has to say about the trend, by the > racking manufacturers, away from the use of flashings for asphalt/comp > roofs? We have long used SnapNRack flashings with much success. I > especially like the fact that the penetrations are fully flashed and do not > rely on sealant. I am NOT a fan of their new raised cone/epdm gasket > flashing. There are a number of these raised cone flashings in the > marketplace and it’s my experience that they don’t hold up to the test of > time and I wonder what the roofing manufacturers have to say about this. > > > > I see that Unirac, SnapNRack and others are now offering basically a > sealed L-Foot which is essentially where we were 15-16yrs ago and met with > a lot of opposition from the roofing industry. Just interested to hear > what you guys are using these days on asphalt shingle roofs for reliably > dry attachments? > > > Best Regards, > Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21 > MWBE Certified > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- *Dave Tedeyan, PE* [image: Sungineer Solar] 1653 Slaterville Road, Ithaca, NY 14850 Cell: 607-288-2898 www.sungineersolar.com
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: [email protected] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
