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I keep hearing all these people hand ringing the "newer better" equipment with
all the associated problems and I shake my head at why people don't choose
small and simple?
Our entire grid tied homestead is zero energy with only 7 kW of solar (and that
includes our mini split for winter heating and charging our electric car) and a
~20 year old, 48 volt outback inverter with flooded and lead calcium batteries
which should easily go 30 years with basically no maintenance.
Maybe I'm just an old fuck but what I have works really well and I didn't have
to reinvent the wheel either.
On May 18, 2025 7:54:33 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]> wrote:
Wow, when do we realize that fork in the road we chose to go down may have been
the wrong one? I know there's a phrase to describe needing to augment an
inverter with a Cerbo, Chargeverter, and Solar Assistant, but it escapes me.
Same with the myriad of tinkering, workarounds, and tweaking Manufacture A's
inverter to Manufacture B's batteries. There are a lot of smart minds on this
list with the technical prowess to make things work, but what happens when
someone like me that's let's just say is a "little slower" gets a call to
service such a system and the guy or gal that "got it to work" isn't around, or
the comet-like manufacture the likes of Growatt or it's equivalent is no more.
I know I do more griping on this list than contribute to the knowledge corpus
and it's not that I'm a crank, I think. Right now, it's just that I'm sitting
on a dozen requests to build off-grid and GTBB systems and I find myself in a
paralysis where I can't recommend a single Hybrid inverter, and for my
potential off-grid customers, all that I can recommend is a system where I'm
stacking two 3-5kw inverters and many settings require a dongle and PC, Victron.
So in the first case, this road seems to have lead to an ever increasing
techno-cluster fuck, and in the second, it's traced back to where we were
several years ago, but not in a good way.
Serious question, What is the challenge in building an SW quality inverter and
MPPT that plays nice with most all batteries. Conext came close? If it's a
feasible proposition, I know people with the means and interest in these things
to make it happen.
Michael
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 6:15 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
SA will combine the SOC if the Communication is working properly with the BMS
and the MNS AIO. See attached
On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 8:28 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I will also mention that SA seems to be pulling the SOC information from only
the first inverter added to the system, or the one designated as "#1" in SA. It
is not averaging the SOC pulled from all three inverters.
Another note: I tried the Emulated BMS in SA, and it didn't work. The battery
graphs were all wrong, only showing that absolute value for current rather than
showing charge and discharge current. The reported SOC stayed pegged at 100%. I
went back to using the inverter values, and that is when I discovered the SOC
was not dropping fast enough in SA, which led me to the battery aH issue.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Sun, May 18, 2025, 8:11 AM Jason Szumlanski
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
That's not a bad idea. But it is one more thing to potentially go wrong and
have to maintain.
I just discovered something else with a parallel AIO and SA setup. Really it's
more of an inverter issue. The inverters have wildly inaccurate SOC values if
you are doing open loop. You have to divide the battery aH setting by the
number of inverters you have for accurate numbers, at least on the firmware I
have. I noticed on this triple setup that when the batteries were depleted
about 80% (20% SOC), that the inverters reported a SOC of 73%. Each inverter
only sees the aH that they consume individually and deduct that from 100%.
If you are using the inverter values for SOC in SA, you need to set the aH in
the inverters to the proportional share of the battery capacity.
This is something I believe Midnite needs to fix unless it has already been
addressed in a firmware upgrade.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Fri, May 16, 2025, 9:53 AM Jay via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Hi Jason
How about you install a 12v battery charged from the inverter to power the
device which would give you back up on backup.
On May 16, 2025, at 12:58 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
But the upside is it doesn't rely on the cloud, so historical data is stored
locally, even in the event of a system shutdown (if you power the Pi device
from the battery DC bus). That doesn't do much good if the battery BMS turns
off, of course, but it's nice to continue logging data even if there is no
Internet connection.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Fri, May 16, 2025, 12:48 AM Brett Stigile via RE-wrenches
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Overall I like Solar Assistant as well. Be aware it is not cloud based. Sure
it stores locally on the Pi, that’s great. But, if the internet is down you
are blind. Not supper helpful for remote sites if you can’t look through the
data a see if there was a potential issue or if the internet is just down.
Brett Stigile
Owner/Renewable Energy Electrician
503-317-7950
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Oregon Sun Wrangler LLC
CCB: 240661
License No: 66LRT
NABCEP PV Installation Professional Certification
#PV 100414-008123
> On May 15, 2025, at 1:05 PM,
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: EG4 Praise (Maverick Brown)
> 2. Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO (Jason Szumlanski)
> 3. Re: Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO (William Bryce)
> 4. Re: Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO (Kirpal Khalsa)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 08:14:41 -0500
> From: Maverick Brown
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: RE-wrenches
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Praise
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> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 11:37:53 -0400
> From: Jason Szumlanski
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: RE-wrenches
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAE438R-L9F0ka3QyPans-cYtQc3PDmvLK5uR6K5-Oz=wkpe...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I just got Solar Assistant up and running with my triple AIO site. It was
> surprisingly easy. I think I am in data heaven. This is everything I had
> hoped for from the Midnite Pro app. It consolidates all three inverters'
> instant and historical data while providing real time individual inverter
> data as well. I'm not sure if I can get the historical data per inverter,
> but that is available through the Midnite app anyway, and has little
> usefulness in a multi-inverter environment.
>
> If anyone needs tips on how to get this done, feel free to contact me off
> list.
>
> The short answer is I purchased a preloaded Solar Assistant Pi device
> directly from Solar Assistant, and three USB to RS-485 dongles from Amazon.
> I got the Pi device with the DC power supply and connected it directly to
> my battery bus so it stays on even if the inverters shut down.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 12:20:45 -0400
> From: William Bryce
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: RE-wrenches
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO
> Message-ID:
>
> <caeqmjp4uqh9gcfght4mkevty71fbfofh4o7gcabuqbrj67o...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:caeqmjp4uqh9gcfght4mkevty71fbfofh4o7gcabuqbrj67o...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I highly recommend using SA with ALL Asian inverters. This will remove the
> chance of a SolArk screen of death bricking and locking you out of your
> inverter, and also remove any chance of data or setting manipulation from
> others.
>
> With SA, ALL the data is served and stored on the RPie computer locally.
>
> On the MNS AIO, you can run the Dongle and the SA at the same time.
>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 11:38?AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I just got Solar Assistant up and running with my triple AIO site. It was
>> surprisingly easy. I think I am in data heaven. This is everything I had
>> hoped for from the Midnite Pro app. It consolidates all three inverters'
>> instant and historical data while providing real time individual inverter
>> data as well. I'm not sure if I can get the historical data per inverter,
>> but that is available through the Midnite app anyway, and has little
>> usefulness in a multi-inverter environment.
>>
>> If anyone needs tips on how to get this done, feel free to contact me off
>> list.
>>
>> The short answer is I purchased a preloaded Solar Assistant Pi device
>> directly from Solar Assistant, and three USB to RS-485 dongles from Amazon.
>> I got the Pi device with the DC power supply and connected it directly to
>> my battery bus so it stays on even if the inverters shut down.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 09:50:38 -0700
> From: Kirpal Khalsa
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: RE-wrenches
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Assistant and Midnite AIO
> Message-ID:
>
> <caoe7ivggp1vxyz-82jpd1lzyw7eumdnsw-6ibs-knhjnk4t...@mail.gmail.com<mailto:caoe7ivggp1vxyz-82jpd1lzyw7eumdnsw-6ibs-knhjnk4t...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Does the Solar Assistant work with Outback gear?
>
> Kirpal
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2025, 9:21?AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> wrote:
>
>> I highly recommend using SA with ALL Asian inverters. This will remove the
>> chance of a SolArk screen of death bricking and locking you out of your
>> inverter, and also remove any chance of data or setting manipulation from
>> others.
>>
>> With SA, ALL the data is served and stored on the RPie computer locally.
>>
>> On the MNS AIO, you can run the Dongle and the SA at the same time.
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 11:38?AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just got Solar Assistant up and running with my triple AIO site. It was
>>> surprisingly easy. I think I am in data heaven. This is everything I had
>>> hoped for from the Midnite Pro app. It consolidates all three inverters'
>>> instant and historical data while providing real time individual inverter
>>> data as well. I'm not sure if I can get the historical data per inverter,
>>> but that is available through the Midnite app anyway, and has little
>>> usefulness in a multi-inverter environment.
>>>
>>> If anyone needs tips on how to get this done, feel free to contact me off
>>> list.
>>>
>>> The short answer is I purchased a preloaded Solar Assistant Pi device
>>> directly from Solar Assistant, and three USB to RS-485 dongles from Amazon.
>>> I got the Pi device with the DC power supply and connected it directly to
>>> my battery bus so it stays on even if the inverters shut down.
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>> _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
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--
Michael Morningstar
Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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