Things like this do happen sometimes. I do not have time for these and
know it will not do much good most of the time.
Do what the inspector (bozo) wants and fix it after he is gone.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[6]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [7] [6]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On 2025-07-29 2:02 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hold the phone! I would not let this become a precedent in a
jurisdiction where I work. I'm not a CEC expert, but I'd fight this NEC
question all the way to the state board in Florida. Here, the process
would be to appeal to the Building Official, and if he is as clueless
as the inspector, appeal to the Building Officials Association of
Florida, which issues informal and formal rulings.
An ESS is a SYSTEM. As defined (NEC 2020), it is "One or more
components assembled together capable of storing energy and providing
electrical energy into the premises wiring system or an electric power
production and distribution network." The inspector is conflating a
battery with an ESS. Technically, the Simpliphi "battery" is really a
battery with a BMS, the combination of which _could_ be an ESS if that
were all there was to the system, but in this context, the battery and
BMS are simply parts of a larger ESS.
A battery and BMS are just _components_ of an ESS. There is a clear
informational note in the NEC Handbook that includes inverters in
what's included in an ESS. The typical understanding is that an ESS
might include:
* Batteries
* Inverters
* Charge Controllers
* BMS (Battery Management System)
* Disconnects
* OCPD
* Monitoring hardware
* Enclosures
The purpose of 706.2 is to provide a disconnect switch to isolate the
ESS from the building wiring and parallel operated sources (i.e.
utility). A simple AC disconnect on the output of the inverter should
suffice in this case. It doesn't need to be a blade-type visible load
breaker switch (unless your utility requires it and it can serve double
duty). It could be as simple as a circuit breaker enclosure with a
circuit breaker. You can get a combination of the two rated at 100A at
the big orange store for $109. You probably already have a lockable
disconnect on the inverter output anyway.
This is one where I would fight rather than comply.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 4:13 PM david quattro via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
🤦🏻♂️ ugh these building departments..! I'm very surprised that
they're requiring the battery conductors to open. I don't think they
understand the gravity of what they're saying
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 10:49 AM MD Electric & Solar
<mdelectricso...@gmail.com> wrote:
David,
We already have an RSD system installed, it shuts down the tigo's on
the rooftop and it shuts down the AC output of the inverter, making the
home safe for firefighters. I can't imagine what an additional battery
shut down could do for safety, at 48V DC nominal?
But we must comply with the AHJ........
I priced (online) an Eaton 100amp 600V DC rated knife switch NEMA 3R,
$4000.00....ouch
Mike
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 10:41 AM david quattro <da...@quattrosolar.com>
wrote:
I use the SolArk 12v micro-circuit that triggers RSD. hopefully that's
all they're looking for, is to kill ESS and solar DC. When using
plunger-type, or single gang it's easy. But when they require a knife
blade style switch it's tricky (with SolArk and Midnite). This is
because in order to deenergize ESS/RSD you have to complete the micro
circuit.
Eaton makes a Nema4 switch that can be turned upside down. that puts
the red handle on the left side, which is unusual but I've done it, and
I don't think it violates any requirement.
otherwise you're stuck using an ice cube relay. Initiating RSD is
easy, but getting everything to turn back on is harder. Feel free to
call me if you want
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:46 AM MD Electric & Solar via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Wondering if Midnight solar makes something outdoor rated, with a
typical 250ADC breaker, like this:
Outdoor rated, lockable....
https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=76&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=5&act=p
[1]
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:39 AM jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe if you left the key on a chain to open the door, and placard with
instructions on the outside that would work?
On Jul 29, 2025, at 10:23 AM, MD Electric & Solar
<mdelectricso...@gmail.com> wrote:
Correct, it does not have an external disconnect, but if you open the
cover, each battery has it's own disconnect and the Sol-Ark has a
battery disconnect.
Looks like I'm in the market for a 100 amp rated outdoor, lockable DC
rated knife switch.
Mike
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 9:16 AM jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
I had to look up that battery enclosure and if I understand correctly
it does not have an external breaker/disconnect so yes the inspector is
correct in the need for one if I understand.
jay
On Jul 29, 2025, at 10:09 AM, MD Electric & Solar
<mdelectricso...@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is the reference, attached.
On Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 8:49 AM jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: I'll
let the code experts chime in, but I would ask for the code reference
they are referring to.
The only one I can think of has to do with if the batteries are on the
other side of a wall.
Thats as clean an install as they come
jay
On Jul 29, 2025, at 9:43 AM, MDElectricSolar
<mdelectricso...@gmail.com> wrote:
<image0.jpeg>
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
707-684-0064 mobile
707-884-1862 office
www.mdelectricsolar.com [2]
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar [3]
On Jul 29, 2025, at 8:06 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
What is the layout of the equipment
Are the batteries next to and therefore in sight of the inverter?
Jay
On Jul 29, 2025, at 8:44 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
Wrenches,
I have a building inspector in my county of Sonoma who has just told
me that we need to install a rapid shutdown switch of some type
between my LFZ battery bank and my Solark 15k inverter. He mentioned
some type of knife switch within 5 feet of the equipment. I cannot
find any reference to this requirement anywhere but he insists it is
required. These batteries happen to be simplify or brakes and
Stratton batteries and each battery has its own 80 amp breaker on
the battery and the Solark has a battery disconnect switch built-in.
We do have module level RSD which kills the solar output as well as
the inverter output when the button is pushed. Does anyone have any
experience with this or can they point me to the correct code
section or what are others doing to comply with this requirement?
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
707-684-0064 mobile
707-884-1862 office
www.mdelectricsolar.com [2]
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar [3]
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<PRMD BLD_20250728_062230.pdf>
--
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar Inc.
Office: 707-412-3181
Cell: 707-684-0064
www.mdelectricsolar.com [2]
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar [3]
--
Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar Inc.
Office: 707-412-3181
Cell: 707-684-0064
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[1]
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