On Jan 09, 2007, at 22:44 UTC, Seth Willits wrote: > > (And sometimes, even when a new > > framework isn't needed, some users loudly demand one... > > *cough*Cocoa*cough*...) > > I'm completely flabberghasted by you saying that. Either > > a) you're extremely ignorant of all of the benefits of Cocoa > b) you simply don't think REALbasic needs any of those benefits > c) or you know something the rest of us don't. > > I don't know which is true.
It's close to (c), except that you should replace "the rest of us" with "me" (i.e. you). Others also know it, in fact it was said earlier on this thread: Cocoa is a layer on top of CoreFoundation, just as is Carbon. > One thing is for sure: I sure as hell am not going to go through the > hassle of calling objc runtime functions and hacking together support > for the simplest of things which would take literally less than a > minute to do if there was a Cocoa bridge and a new framework using it. So you imagine, but I see no basis for that imagination in reality. The REALbasic framework *already* uses both Carbon and Cocoa under the hood. (though granted, it's probably mostly Carbon, which is a Good Thing since Carbon is easily usable from C++, and C++ is portable while objective-c is essentially not, meaning that there is substantially less code for the RB team to maintain). We, as RB users, use neither; we use RB. Yes, when something's not built in and you have to go mucking about with Cocoa or Carbon declares, it's sometimes a PITA. That would continue to be true regardless. > The things I do with Cocoa would take ages to do recreate or hack to > get in REALbasic. OK, I get it, you're a Cocoa fan. A Carbon fan would say the same thing about Carbon. And, in fact, an RB fan could easily say that the things he does with RB would take ages to recreate or hack to get in Carbon or Cocoa. Each tool tends to do best the things it does best. > And then what's the point of doing it anyway? Just so I can > have garbage collection and simpler syntax? Hey, if you see no advantages of RB over Cocoa, go use Cocoa and unsubscribe from this list. It's a very busy list, especially with silly threads like this one; less traffic will probably improve it. > I moved to Cocoa and have not used REALbasic for any new development > in _three years_ this March (and as a matter of fact, I only wrote > that app because you asked for it). Good for you. Why are you still here then? > If that's not a reason to get a > new framework (RS losing customers, that is), I don't know what is. This is the part that is nonsense. RB could be using a mostly Cocoa framework now -- how would we know? What RB uses under the hood is an internal implementation detail. Imagining that this will affect the retention or loss of customers is just silly, at least from a technical standpoint. The only benefit is that you get that warm-fuzzy Steve-Jobs-is-pleased feeling by being able to say you support his old NeXT technology. A few people will be pleased by this, a few others will be displeased -- on the whole it wouldn't make any difference. OK, that's about all I have to say on the matter -- so as to not perpetuate a silly thread, I'll refrain from replying again unless I think of something new to contribute. If we all do that, it'll die the peaceful death it deserves. Best, - Joe -- Joe Strout -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Verified Express, LLC "Making the Internet a Better Place" http://www.verex.com/ _______________________________________________ Unsubscribe or switch delivery mode: <http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/> Search the archives of this list here: <http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>
