Today's Topic Summary
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend/topics
big region test: fly thru a single 1km * 1km region on opensim (not
a megaregion) with Naali [9 Updates]
Taiga 0.1.4 released [12 Updates]
Help with connecting over Lan [4 Updates]
Topic: big region test: fly thru a single 1km * 1km region on
opensim (not a megaregion) with Naali
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 02:38AM +0300 ^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOE_WNX05W0 (be patient the flight
takes
a while :)
we agreed to do this test already in April or May, but the one who we
figured would do this has been busy with other stuff, so has been
pending.
requires opensim 0.7 so now that i had it running for other reasons
(added a http frontend to an image rendering service there, but
that's a
topic for another post :) figured to do this to finally see how things
work out.
worked out of the box, i didn't need to do anything. except disable
ODE
'cause it crashed. and i tested 10km * 10km first, but that ended up
with the terrain module creating a huge map image or something and
writing that to sqlite trashed my laptop so had to kill that process.
couldn't put meshes there 'cause modrex doesn't work with 0.7 yet, but
with that and the new terrain entity-components in Naali now this
should
become really usable (you can now put several terrain entities in one
scene/region in naali against taiga, and if not yet, later set their
size and resolution too).
our plan has been to first test big regions and ensure that Naali
doesn't have artificial region size limits before possibly looking
into
seamless continuous sl style multiregion support. i think for many
applications single big regions suffice, but there are of course
others
where separate but for the user continous multiple regions are needed.
~Toni
Mikko Pallari <[email protected]> Oct 08 09:31AM +0300 ^
> 'cause it crashed. and i tested 10km * 10km first, but that ended up
> with the terrain module creating a huge map image or something and
> writing that to sqlite trashed my laptop so had to kill that
process.
What changes did you do to use these big regions? If I remember
correctly
what we talked earlier, this requires to change RegionSize constant
from
OpenSim.Framework.Constants class. Is there now some configuration
where to
change this?
> become really usable (you can now put several terrain entities in
one
> scene/region in naali against taiga, and if not yet, later set their
> size and resolution too).
It is true that not all of the ModreX features work on OpenSim
0.7.x, but
meshes should be usable when changing to ModularRex client stack and
connecting with OpenSim authentication.
> applications single big regions suffice, but there are of course
others
> where separate but for the user continous multiple regions are
needed.
> ~Toni
Cheers,
Mikko
Peter Steinlechner <[email protected]> Oct 08 08:37AM +0200 ^
Hi Toni
This is absolutely great. I imagine that free definable region sizes
would
be welcomed all over and valued over the seamless multiregion
support. A
1x1km region would be comparable with 16 regular regions now,
without border
crossing effect. How was the memory/cpu usage? I hope this feature
will be
available in the near future.
Cheers
Pedro
Peter Steinlechner <[email protected]> Oct 08 08:58AM +0200 ^
I was just thinking - a 10x10km region would be about the same like
1600
regular regions. So it must be using quite some RAM and CPU if its
at the
same ratio then when setting up 1600 single regions.
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Peter Steinlechner
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 11:47AM +0300 ^
On pe, 2010-10-08 at 08:37 +0200, Peter Steinlechner wrote:
> support. A 1x1km region would be comparable with 16 regular regions
> now, without border crossing effect. How was the memory/cpu usage? I
> hope this feature will be available in the near future.
Region (an) # show stats
MEMORY STATISTICS
Allocated to OpenSim : 59 MB
On mono in 64bit linux, running that 1km*1km region in standalone.
Normally in 3d systems empty space doesn't take any memory, the size
of
the scene itself doesn't matter. Because the data is essentially
points.
Example:
small region with two objects:
a = object(pos=10, 10, 1)
b = object(pos=15, 10, 1)
huge region with two objects:
a = object(pos=100000, 10, 1)
b = object(pos=200000, 10, 1)
so those two datasets take the same amount of memory.
the problem i got with the 10km*10km attempt was something related to
terrain or map tile making, perhaps it made a map tile that big
writing
that to sqlite was too much for my laptop .. hopefully can disable
that
somehow to get that bigger test done too :)
what matters is what you have in the scene: how many objects, how are
you processing those (i have ODE disabled 'cause it crashed, perhaps
has
some 256m assumption in opensim-ode still), and if you have a terrain
how do you deal with that etc.
i'm quite confident we can make e.g. big quite complex city scenes
like
this, when just make it with suitable sized meshes (like an object
for a
whole block or something, if it is e.g. a city racing game or planning
vis). that way the object count won't be huge and opensim should be
happy.
sharing load for different computers and processes etc. is certainly
still necessary at least when you have a lot of interactions
(especially
people) running around in your big scenes, there the linden
multiregion
system is one solution, but also many kinds of other solutions are
there
(like just distributing the physics calcs on a server cluster but
still
having a unified scene communicated to client to make the protocol
simpler. the guys at intel research are afaik looking into this sort
of
stuff related to opensim).
> Pedro
~Toni
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 11:58AM +0300 ^
On pe, 2010-10-08 at 09:31 +0300, Mikko Pallari wrote:
> correctly what we talked earlier, this requires to change RegionSize
> constant from OpenSim.Framework.Constants class. Is there now some
> configuration where to change this?
No, it is still that constant. So I just said:
- public const uint RegionSize = 256;
+ public const uint RegionSize = 1000;
and rebuilt.
> It is true that not all of the ModreX features work on OpenSim
0.7.x,
> but meshes should be usable when changing to ModularRex client stack
> and connecting with OpenSim authentication.
ooh this is awesome news to me! i was thinking of asking you today of
the status of that.
should also Entity-Component storage work? Naali has working terrain
entities now, Jukka put an example to w.r.o:9000 earlier (i think
removed now 'cause was so heavy at least for me). With those can put
several terrain entities to one scene, they just load the heightmap
from
an asset (now a file for testing, an example is bundled with Naali).
using that terrain EC you can fill a big region with suitably sized
blocks of terrain. not having one huge terrain for the whole thing
should make the rendering work ok, 'cause ogre knows to not draw the
ones that are far or not in the view direction (has decent camera
frustum culling).
also without terrain a big region could be built just by using meshes
for the land (if you need land, and are not making planets or space
stations or blood cells :) .. but terrains are of course good too (big
regions are easily interesting for geographic data and there it is
nice
to use existing heightmaps, and of course they are easily useful in
general too).
opensim physics is perhaps the only problematic point with this now?
but
for e.g. arch or geo vis it's not always needed. if ode is made to not
crash, modrex rexode mesh support probably can work for the whole
region
too .. so can put a 1km*1km invisible low res collision mesh there for
the terrain perhaps.
~Toni
Mikko Pallari <[email protected]> Oct 08 12:22PM +0300 ^
> removed now 'cause was so heavy at least for me). With those can put
> several terrain entities to one scene, they just load the
heightmap from
> an asset (now a file for testing, an example is bundled with Naali).
The work on the new EC table and sync messages have been made in
taiga-0.1
branch. I haven't yet merged those to master branch that follows
OpenSim
master, because the work on ecsync is not yet finished.
I'm not sure how you would use terrain EC's with OpenSim, because
AFAIK
there are is no entity in scene for the terrain; terrain doesn't
have UUID.
But of course you could use meshes as terrain. Or maybe make a
workaround
where the terrain EC would be added to some object in scene. Then
again you
would need to make some server side modifications to make collision
for
those ECs.
Cheers,
Mikko
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 01:23PM +0300 ^
Mikko Pallari kirjoitti:
> The work on the new EC table and sync messages have been made in
> taiga-0.1 branch. I haven't yet merged those to master branch that
> follows OpenSim master, because the work on ecsync is not yet
finished.
Also the old RexFreeData per-entity xml sync is fine for that. That's
what is used on w.r.o:9000, right? It isn't much data, just the
terrain
size or so and a ref to the file with the terrain data (heightmap).
> AFAIK there are is no entity in scene for the terrain; terrain
doesn't
> have UUID. But of course you could use meshes as terrain. Or maybe
> make a workaround where the terrain EC would be added to some object
It is not a workaround, it is the normal way with rex now I think that
any entity can have a terrain component and it is (a part of) the
terrain then :) So just an object somewhere with the terrain EC
works as
a terrain on the client side for that area.
> in scene. Then again you would need to make some server side
> modifications to make collision for those ECs.
Yep, but we can test first without colls how the rendering works etc.
Can of course test it against Tundra too, but I think it is
interesting
that this works with Opensim too.
> Mikko
~Toni
Mikko Pallari <[email protected]> Oct 08 01:44PM +0300 ^
> Also the old RexFreeData per-entity xml sync is fine for that.
That's what
> is used on w.r.o:9000, right? It isn't much data, just the terrain
size or
> so and a ref to the file with the terrain data (heightmap).
Yes, rexfreedata is currently used for storing ecs in w.r.o:9000.
But I'll
probably update that today to have ec sync messages. Of course
freedata
messages will still work, but I wouldn't recommend on using them.
> entity can have a terrain component and it is (a part of) the
terrain then
> :) So just an object somewhere with the terrain EC works as a
terrain on the
> client side for that area.
With rex it is normal, but from OpenSim's perspective it isn't, so
that is
way I said it is a workaround. Having those placeholder prims in
world, and
setting those prims to invisible and phantom, just for sake of
containing
terrain EC is a bit ugly. But yeah, same applies to all ECs that we
have.
Cheers,
Mikko
Topic: Taiga 0.1.4 released
Teravus Ovares <[email protected]> Oct 07 11:41AM -0400 ^
This type of error message typically happens when there's an old
version of
a module left in a bin folder.
Typical causes of an old version...
1. Checkout errors
2. Failing to remove all project built bin files
Namespace changes are the most common cause of these that show up
for people
who religiously prebuild because after update the old dll can still
exist in
the bin folder under the old name.
Teravus
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
10:53AM -0500 ^
I can not find this dll, were is the folder for edit that dll
tnks
______________________________________________
Try disabling ViewerStatsModule, I have no idea what that is but
probably
not very important one. Disablign == remove the dll from opensim
folder or
rename the extension to something else (from .dll to .dont_load for
example).
Best regards,
Jonne Nauha
realXtend developer
2010/10/7 Teravus Ovares <[email protected]>
Teravus Ovares <[email protected]> Oct 07 12:21PM -0400 ^
it's in the opensim folder
-Teravus
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:53 AM, john felipe urrego mejia <
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
11:29AM -0500 ^
No, is not, i view in C:\Taiga-0.1.4\opensim, but i dont found, view
image:
[image: noesta.png]
I do not see the dll in that folder
Tnks
Greetings
2010/10/7 Teravus Ovares <[email protected]>
Teravus Ovares <[email protected]> Oct 07 12:34PM -0400 ^
The name will be
OpenSim.Region.UserStatistics.dll
-Teravus
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM, john felipe urrego mejia <
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
11:36AM -0500 ^
I Disablign or remove? the "OpenSim.Region.UserStatistics.dll"
tnks
2010/10/7 Teravus Ovares <[email protected]>
Teravus Ovares <[email protected]> Oct 07 01:10PM -0400 ^
You should delete that file.
-Teravus
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:36 PM, john felipe urrego mejia <
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
02:11PM -0500 ^
unfortunately it remains clear that dll and the error dump, view
image:
[image: errornaali032.png]
Please help
tnks
2010/10/7 Teravus Ovares <[email protected]>
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
03:05PM -0500 ^
this is image of same error in windows 7 pro x86:
[image: errornaali032win7.png]
i can do
tnks
2010/10/7 john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]>
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 07 11:34PM +0300 ^
On to, 2010-10-07 at 15:05 -0500, john felipe urrego mejia wrote:
> this is image of same error in windows 7 pro x86:
> errornaali032win7.png
so this is not a taiga (server) problem, but a client/viewer i.e.
naali
crash. when does it crash?
please put the .dmp file somewhere (e.g. a bug report on
http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-naali/issues/list) so we can
hopefully see exactly what is going on and come up with a fix.
one thing you could try is running as administrator, there have
sometimes been problems that naali tries to save config files to some
place where your user doesn't have rights to write.
~Toni
john felipe urrego mejia <[email protected]> Oct 07
06:47PM -0500 ^
Hi, already set up where you said, how long it takes to be a
possible answer
to a possible solution.
tnks
2010/10/7 Toni Alatalo <[email protected]>
MasterJ <[email protected]> Oct 08 01:41AM -0700 ^
Thank you for teh release i use it from 2 days now and thankkkkkkk
youuuuuuu the prims still on the region now if i log out then i come
back the prims stills here (prims mean mesh of course).
and if i relogg using realxtend 0.42 the prims still here too
finaly :).
just still have the inventory messed up if i use realxtend to upload
and relogg with Naali.
that's surely not due to taiga but to the old settings of realxtend
0.42 .
Great work again, it's growing up very good and fast.
MasterJ
On 8 oct, 01:47, john felipe urrego mejia
Topic: Help with connecting over Lan
devin <[email protected]> Oct 07 04:34PM -0700 ^
Hello I am new to opensim and realxtend and am trying to get a local
Tagia server set up that I can connect to over my lan for development
and testing purposes. I have two seperate machines, a ubuntu server
box running the taiga server, and a windows XP box to connect with
using the Naali viewer.
The Taiga server starts and runs without errors, and when i attempt to
connect to it the Naali viewer says it can connect, and the tagia
server says my credentials are correct. However both the viewer and
server give me errors such as "can not find region to connect to" and
Never gets past the login screen.
Last few lines from my server follows:
1163208 [12] INFO - [LindenLoginHelper] Received XML-RPC login
request for http://mudkip:8002/users/mr.bill with client "realXtend
Naali ." to destination "uri:1000,1000&128&128&0"
1163223 [12] INFO - [OpenSimMap] GridServer returned 1 regions
1163223 [12] WARN - [LindenLoginHelper] Can't locate a simulator from
custom login URI: uri:1000,1000&128&128&0
1163223 [12] ERROR - [LindenLoginHelper] Could not find an available
region for login
How can I fix this problem? Is there something I could have configured
wrong that would cause such a problem? I honestly do not know how to
fix this problem, so if someone can give me some assistance it would
be great.
I noticed that there was a command "show regions" but when i run it it
didn't list anything. So i ran the create region command and filled in
the information it asked for, but tword the bottom it had some red
error text, i am unsure if it is the cause of the problem.
19:18:53 - Command error: System.NullReferenceException: Object
reference not set to an instance of an object
at OpenSim.OpenSimBase.SetupScene (OpenSim.Framework.RegionInfo
regionInfo, Int32 proxyOffset, IConfigSource configSource,
IClientNetworkServer& clientServer) [0x00000]
at OpenSim.OpenSimBase.CreateRegion (OpenSim.Framework.RegionInfo
regionInfo, Boolean portadd_flag, Boolean do_post_init, IScene&
mscene) [0x00000]
at OpenSim.OpenSimBase.CreateRegion (OpenSim.Framework.RegionInfo
regionInfo, Boolean portadd_flag, IScene& scene) [0x00000]
at OpenSim.OpenSim.HandleCreateRegion (System.String module,
System.String[] cmd) [0x00000]
at OpenSim.Framework.Console.Commands.Resolve (System.String[] cmd)
[0x00000]
at OpenSim.Framework.Console.LocalConsole.ReadLine (System.String p,
Boolean isCommand, Boolean e) [0x00000]
at OpenSim.Framework.Console.CommandConsole.Prompt () [0x00000]
at OpenSim.Application.Main (System.String[] args) [0x00000]
I tried to run the "show regions" command again after i ran the
command to create a new region but i still am not seeing it list any
regions.
-Thanks
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 02:41AM +0300 ^
On to, 2010-10-07 at 16:34 -0700, devin wrote:
> server says my credentials are correct. However both the viewer and
> server give me errors such as "can not find region to connect to"
and
> Never gets past the login screen.
Did you run the taiga config wizard, or manually config the
installation? I recommend the wizard, have used it on Ubuntu too. It
puts all the configs and creates region(s) etc.
~Toni
devin <[email protected]> Oct 07 04:48PM -0700 ^
I am unsure. I did not know there was a wizard. What is the command
to run the wizard ? I mainly just put the mysql connection settings
into the config files and it seemed to be running correctly.
Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> Oct 08 02:52AM +0300 ^
On to, 2010-10-07 at 16:48 -0700, devin wrote:
> I am unsure. I did not know there was a wizard. What is the command
> to run the wizard ? I mainly just put the mysql connection settings
> into the config files and it seemed to be running correctly.
http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Taiga#Configuring_with_Taiga_Config_Wizard
we could provide a .deb of that too, already did for an earlier
version
of naali.
~Toni
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