Hi Toni thanks for the answers. It looks like Tundra will be the way to go!
Just another question came up, of which I think you allready thought about. How will the scenes be stored persistent on the tundra server, so in case of a crash or restart the right scenes start up again? I thought maybe there could be a way to store the datas referencing the assets in a database or a folder with set of scene files and their positions and have them loading on start of the tundra server. (I wouldn't be surprised if it allready is there and I just need to go through the documentation....) Cheers and a happy weekend to all Pedro On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > > we talked about Tundra with Peter/Pedro, he tested the demos and sent in > some comments and questions. We agreed to continue here -- I'll quote enough > so that you see the nice comments too: > > On Feb 10, 2011, at 11:02 PM, Peter Steinlechner wrote: > > this is brilliant and I start to grasp and embrace the whole tundra idea. > Certainly I have to tinker around with it a bit more, but I think this will > > really become the firefox and apache for virtual worlds! To make the > GUI a part of the application, rather then having it in the viewer is a > rock solid feature that opens some new horizons. > > > Yep, and not only the GUI but basically all functionality .. like whether a > client connection gets an avatar or something else etc. > > There is not much missing to make the opensim based taiga server very > soon obsolete :-) > > > We'll see, Opensim has nice aspects too, I'm not surprised if both stay > around and develop for different purposes. But it seems to be that many > applications don't need the Opensim featureset (like grids), and indeed that > we can easily enough port the basics like chat and avatars to Tundra as > application level scripts. > > One point I'd like to clarify: the customizability of the client, loading > code from the net as a part of the service for custom GUIs etc., is there > always in Naali. It doesn't basically matter if you use a Tundra or Taiga > server, the EC system and the API for adding keybindings and menu entries > from e.g. EC_Script Javascripts loaded with http can work similarily. So you > can make also opensim+modrex worlds so that the service/app there defines > the GUI. > > The difference currently is that Naali releases have the default UiModule > always enabled, whereas in the builds from the Tundra branch it is disabled. > But we could for example make it so that for Taiga worlds the default UI is > shown only if modrex tells so (and when logging to vanilla opensim have it > automatically on). Also, the new Asset API and the current EC_Script > implementation that handles code loaded from the net are in the Tundra > branch only so not in the 0.4 release. We may later get the things merged so > that have the current things for all usages, discussed it in the meeting > today, but that's to be seen and also depends on what people actually need. > > But there sure are unique points in Tundra usage, like: 1) ease of > authoring of e.g. meshes on a local standalone app, which automatically > updates textures in the 3d view when they change on disk and 2) network game > dev where it makes sense to run same code partially both in the server & > client 3) custom messaging for advanced feats. > > Just to note that the ECs and client side Javascript works against Taiga as > well, can be useful if someone has made e.g. a complex app as an Opensim > region module and wants a custom GUI for it. > > - Would it be possible to attach an alternative collision mesh to objects? > This might be helpfull in case of adding ramps to stair meshes for > example. > Similar it was in rexviewer 0.42 > > > Yes I think that already works, EC_RigidBody (which is how we communicate > things to Bullet) supports putting a collision mesh ref IIRC. I think we > should make the dotscene pipeline support that (or did someone do that > already?) so that you can define the collisions meshes in your modelling app > too. > > - Poking around a bit in the ogre website I stumbled over hydrax water, > which > looks quite neat - but didnt got further into the details and wonder if > this > would be very difficult to add or if you folks allready have something > more > stunning in mind ? > > > Ali tested SkyX and Hydrax already a year ago or so, was it so that either > is even in somehow as a compile time option? He's been waiting for the guy > to make a release so could look at using them again. I think with Hydrax > there was problems with using it for large waters, was too heavy? > > - The terrains resemble about the same size like in opensim but could I > asume that > it would allow easy for bigger spaces or loading a few terrain tiles, > without using > meshes ? I could think of more then just a few use cases where > possibility of > using bigger, real world elevation data based terrains would be welcome. > > > Yes the EC_Terrains can be of any size and you can add as many as you want. > For the client side that works even against Taiga, we had an extra terrain > on world.realxtend.org:9000 earlier as a test, flying on the sky :) > > But on the Tundra server it really works for collisions, EC_Terrain just > has a EC_RigidBody of type Heightmap. > > Indeed a good demo would be to make a large area with real world elevation > data. I think should work ok 'cause Ogre does decent visibility culling, so > rendering shouldn't be too heavy. Otherwise people have for long made > advanced scene managers and terrain systems with Ogre for large worlds, > someone was making a spherical system for earth scale planet etc., but I > think with the current simple EC_Terrain system we can already do a lot. > > Pedro > > > ~Toni > > 2011/2/9 Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> > >> part 2/2 >> >> note: in bird game you fly with arrow keys, but in fishgame currently >> the same rightclick-drag to rotate as in av movement (i should remove >> the need for that mousepressing and just use mousemove directly) >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Toni Alatalo <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 19:33:37 +0200 >> Subject: Re: tundra demo scene with minigames >> On Jan 19, 2011, at 1:13 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote: >> >> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589640/Tundra-1.0-demo.exe has a recent build >> from the Tundra branch of Naali, with >> >> (...) >> >> I will send another mail later this afternoon with a link to a bundle of >> the demo content and instructions on how to get it started locally. >> >> >> Ok it's now up at http://www.realxtend.org/download/lvm_20110119.zip >> >> The basic instructions for Tundra usage are at >> http://www.realxtend.org/doxygen/tundradocumentfiles.html . All that >> applies for this document/scene as well. >> >> So after installing that Tundra demo, which is just a new version of the >> Naali with the server included, you can open the demo scenes just by >> clicking on them in windows explorer. This opens the scene in a server, >> which is basically Naali running in standalone mode. It has a free camera >> script loaded by default, so you can move around in the scene etc. To get >> more things, you need to load the so-called plugins to the server. This is >> best done now by using the scene structure window which you can open from >> the menu. You can either drag&drop e.g. plugins/animals_LVM.txml and >> optionally the fish and osprey games to that window, or do right-click -> >> import scene in scenestruct. If you drag&drop to the 3d view, it places the >> sceneparts in the place of the drop, which can be confusing with these >> plugins. The other plugins like day&night are included already by default in >> the main lvm.txml. >> >> When you load the animals plugin, you should immediately get some deers >> running (or floating due to a bug) near the small river. This you see on the >> server as well. >> >> To get to move as an avatar, and to play the work-in-progress crude >> minigames, you need to connect with a client. You do this by running >> viewer.exe, but it needs to be configured so that it knows where you have >> your local copy of the demo assets. This is easiest done by right-clicking >> in windows explorer in the LVM scene folder, the one where you have >> lvm.txml, and choosing 'open tundra viewer in this directory'. There is a >> screenshot of this in the doc linked above. By default a minimal little >> connecting form is used now, there type: localhost (defaults to port 2345 >> like the server too) and put any *single word* as username, password is not >> needed. If you put "firstname lastname" it tries to connect with LLUDP to >> opensim, and "something@something" would be using a reX account. >> >> Once connected you should get an avatar. This demo scene actually has an >> old version of the avatar application which doesn't have flying and such -- >> the current version is included in the tundra installer itself. >> >> Then on a client, after you have loaded the Osprey game, a statue of that >> eagle like bird should appear by the beach near where the avatar first >> landed. If you click that statue, it starts the game where you fly as such a >> bird, and can try catching some red bass from the bay to bring to the two >> nests. If you load the fish game, a table appears floating over the air :) >> and you can click that to get to swim as an tiny anchovy fish .. which must >> eat some plankton and avoid a big bass fish that eats the anchovy. The fish >> game has no GUI graphics for info screens yet (apart from a work-in-progress >> radar for which the image ref is broken for you now so it shows as an empty >> white box), it just prints score in the console when you succeed in eating. >> And ands when you get eaten by the big fish, when you return to your avatar. >> >> Hopefully you get somewhere with this info! >> >> Some basic Tundra info for authoring, from a discussion with a modelling & >> texturing artist :) >> 18:30 <antont> and the awesome thing for authoring is >> 18:30 <antont> that you can just edit the content, and it updates >> automagically >> 18:30 <antont> for example if you open a scene like that with some object >> that has a texture >> 18:31 <antont> you can then paint that texture in photoshop >> 18:31 <antont> and just save the file >> 18:31 <antont> and it immediately refreshes in the naali/tundra view >> automatically >> 18:31 <borisrrrr> great! >> 18:31 <borisrrrr> that's brilliant! >> 18:31 <antont> same for materials and qt ui files and js game logic code >> etc >> 18:32 <antont> and you can just drag&drop a .mesh or .scene file from your >> desktop and it shows >> 18:36 <antont> this article i've written explains the EC idea etc >> >> https://github.com/realXtend/doc/raw/master/arch_article/simple.pdf >> 18:36 <antont> also documents one of the examples, the avatar application, >> in some detail >> >> on behalf of the realXtend project, >> Toni Alatalo (+358407198759) >> Playsign Oy >> >> >> same. >> >> >> > > -- > http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend > http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
