ABC TV The 7:30 Report Transcript 13/10/99 Dr David Kemp on the leaked document KERRY O'BRIEN: And the Education Minister David Kemp joins me now from Parliament House. David Kemp, are you prepared to confirm that the content of this document as it's been exposed, does represent your Cabinet submission to Cabinet on these changes? DAVID KEMP, EDUCATION MINISTER: Well, Kerry, I'm not going to mince words over. It looked from where I was sitting on my side of the House, to be a document that was a Cabinet document. But, of course, the Opposition has refused to table that document, or make it available to the Government. They've circulated something else which may or may not be identical with that document. So it's very hard to say. But it looks to me as though they have a leak of a Cabinet document, yes. KERRY O'BRIEN: You would like to drop the HECS scheme? DAVID KEMP: My major reason, Kerry, for coming on your program is to draw attention to the fact that the Opposition has not had a policy on education, still doesn't. When Kim Beazley was Education Minister, there is nothing that anybody remembers. He shut tens of thousands of young people out of universities, qualified young people. We've opened the doors to those young people. Any policy decisions of this Government will be to expand access to universities for young people and for mature-age people, regardless of their financial circumstances. KERRY O'BRIEN: OK, Dr Kemp, now that you've made that point, I hope we don't have to keep reiterating it. Now you've made that point, can we move on to the content of this document, which I'm sure is what most people will want to hear from you. You are considering dropping the HECS scheme? DAVID KEMP: Kerry, I'm not going to discuss in detail a document that has not yet been considered by Cabinet.What I am prepared to say is that the Government's objectives in education are very clear. Those objectives are to expand access to all qualified young people. They're to give students greater choice. They're to bring about reforms that will encourage universities to offer young people the sort of courses that they're looking for and to enhance quality in the higher education sector. That's what the Government is about and any changes that we were to make in the near or in the distant future will be concerned to achieve those goals. KERRY O'BRIEN: In considering a universal loan scheme for students in place of a HECS scheme, quote, from this document, "With a real rate of interest and repayable through the tax system". What do you mean by a "real rate of interest"? DAVID KEMP: Let me just make the point about the HECS scheme. Like I said, I'm not going to talk about proposals that have yet to go to the Government. What I am prepared to talk about is the Government's support for income-contingent loans and its belief that those loans play a very important role in enabling young people to go to university, regardless of their financial background. KERRY O'BRIEN: What do you mean by a "real rate of interest"? DAVID KEMP: Any decision that the Government takes in relation to HECS loans will be to expand the fairness and the opportunity for access to those loans. Whether the Government takes a decision in relation to that will be a matter for the Government to decide. KERRY O'BRIEN: This document says that under the current system, your current system, "Higher student staff ratios, less frequent lecture and tutorial contact, the persistence of outdated technology in key areas of professional prevention are fuelling a perception of declining quality." A perception or a reality, Dr Kemp? DAVID KEMP: You ask the universities. KERRY O'BRIEN: These are your words, aren't they? DAVID KEMP: That's what I've said -- a perception of declining quality. That is a perception that some people may have. But the universities themselves, I think, will say that they have been able to maintain quality. Let me just concede that point, though, Kerry. That what we're concerned about here is a university system which is certainly facing a great deal of pressure. It's facing pressure for change from changing technology. It's facing pressure from, increasingly, alternatives that students are pursuing. Students are increasingly making choices. Now, everything this Government has done has been to put the universities in a situation where they have the flexibilities, much greater flexibilities than they were ever given by Labor, to respond to that pressure. We've done that by, for example, funding over-enrolled students, which Labor never did. That has opened up places for tens of thousands of extra students. We have opened up opportunities for students to access universities now for fees when they can't access a Government fully-funded place -- something that the Labor Party has consistently opposed. The consequence of that has been -- KERRY O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, Dr Kemp, I'm giving you -- DAVID KEMP: The consequence of that has been to open opportunities for young people in universities. KERRY O'BRIEN: I'd like you to acknowledge the point that you're here alone. Labor's not here to speak for itself. I'd like you to address your documents. DAVID KEMP: You gave them a pretty good go in their introduction. That was a pretty selective introduction and you gave Kim -- Kim Beazley hasn't put forward an education policy since the last election, 1998. When he did, his shadow minister, Mark Latham, walked away from it. He wouldn't associate himself with the education policy that Kim Beazley's put forward. You gave him a pretty good go on that. Now, I'm going to state the Government's position. KERRY O'BRIEN: Can I make the point that on a number of occasions through this interview, you have focused on your criticisms of the Opposition. For the reminder of the interview, could I ask you for the sake of our audience and the knowledge of what you're proposing, to concentrate on what you are proposing in this document and what is driving you to do it. You are comfortable and relaxed about the prospect of universities putting up fees as a result of the changes you propose? DAVID KEMP: What we've said in the document is that we want universities to have flexibilities. It is not our objective that fees should go up, or that fees should be unaffordable for students. That has never been our objective. It's not our objective in supporting the HECS system. It's not our objective in considering any possibility of expanding and extending access to loans. As any fair-minded reader of that document will see, the utterly spurious scare talk from an Opposition without policies has got no relationship to the proposals that are being put forward. But, as I say, the Government is going to consider a range of options. That's my responsibility as minister to put those options to the Government. I believe that those options will achieve the successes that the Government's looking for in terms of greater access for students. But there are a number of those. KERRY O'BRIEN: To allow our audience to make judgments about their worth, I'd like to keep going to what they are. Quote -- "The possibility that universities will charge higher fees and the application of a real interest rate loan will be the most contentious aspects of the package." Are you comfortable about universities charging higher fees? DAVID KEMP: Well, what I was saying there was that the claims would be made. We've heard these outrageous claims today from the Labor Party about fees of $150,000. Now, of course, this is complete rubbish. But this is all that a party that has no perspective on Australian education can come up with. What we are is a government that is putting forward ideas, that is considering ideas and that's what I believe the Australian people respect about this Government. They want people in Australia to have top-quality universities. They want every qualified student to have access to those universities. That's what any decisions that the Government takes will be aiming to advance. KERRY O'BRIEN: This document says that the deregulation of fees will allow the properly -- the proposition of financed by taxpayers -- the proportion, sorry, financed by taxpayers to decrease. I assume that means that Government funding to universities will be able to be cut? DAVID KEMP: Well, there is no suggestion in this document about cutting funding to universities. KERRY O'BRIEN: What do you mean when you say "taxpayers' contribution can be decreased?" What does that mean? DAVID KEMP: There is always going to be an issue about what the appropriate balance is between the public and the private contribution. The Government has maintained the public contribution. What we are seeing is a growing private contribution in the university sector at the moment and as a result of that, the universities now have more revenue and more resources available to them than ever before. They have more students than ever before. KERRY O'BRIEN: OK. Can you rule out that these reforms you're proposing, the option that you clearly prefer, do you rule out the options that you prefer will allow the Government to cut funding? To reduce its contribution to higher education? DAVID KEMP: I've just said, Kerry, that the Government isn't considering options to cut funding to universities. KERRY O'BRIEN: But I'm sorry it says here that the "deregulation of fees will allow the proportion financed by taxpayers to decrease". What else does that mean? DAVID KEMP: Well, I've just said, Kerry, what that means. It means that over time there is always going to be a changing balance between the public and the private contribution and that will depend to a large extent on the entrepreneurial attitudes of the universities themselves. The universities have been highly successful in bringing to this country students from overseas who are paying full-cost fees to the universities. They have offered students the opportunity to take undergraduate places and post-graduate places for fees. They have used the flexibilities that the Government has given them. Of course, that effects the relative proportion of fees, or total income, which are drawn from Government sources and private sources. KERRY O'BRIEN: In other words, the Government will be able to cut funding to higher education? DAVID KEMP: Kerry, you're pursuing what I can only describe as the Labor Party's scare line. KERRY O'BRIEN: You don't think that's a legitimate question, sorry? You don't think that's a legitimate question about whether the Government will cut funding to higher education? DAVID KEMP: I don't think it's a legitimate question on the basis of the document you have in front of you. The document you've got in front of you would suggest the opposite to any fair-minded reader. What we've got to do in this country is build up a top-quality, well-resourced university system. Whatever proposals and options the Government looks at and accepts, that has been the objective of our policies, that's why there are now better-funded universities with more students. I can assure you that anything we do in the future will continue to move Australia down the same path. KERRY O'BRIEN: Briefly, Dr Kemp, is it true that you have previously promised on the record that a number of these measures that you would not introduce, a number of these measures that you're now proposing in this Cabinet document? DAVID KEMP: Well, it is not true. That is not true at all. I was asked in the House today "Are we going to introduce vouchers?". We've ruled out vouchers. I've made that quite clear and put that on the public record. KERRY O'BRIEN: You've never ruled out deregulating universities you've never ruled out allowing them the option of higher fees you've never ruled out allowing them the total control of how many students they want to take in? DAVID KEMP: Kerry, catch up with the progress of policy. There are fees on university campuses now. We have given the universities the flexibility to charge fees to undergraduate students and universities are doing that and they are deriving additional revenue and creating additional places for students as a result. That's expanding opportunity within the Australian higher education system. KERRY O'BRIEN: David Kemp, thanks for talking with us. DAVID KEMP: Thank you very much. email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] © Australian Broadcasting Corporation 1999 ------------------------------------------------------- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words: unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
